Tone sounded weak through live PA.

boltrecords

boltrecords

Fractal Fanatic
So I've never really had any issues with dialing in good tones on my axe ii and Rcf monitor. It's always sounds great to me.
My main amp tends to be either a Jcm 800 or Friedman model. But yesterday we play a private outdoor gig and I hired a sound company for the gig. They had two large yamaha mains 2x15's and a horns and 2 sub cabs with rcf subs. They also ran a yamaha digital board. Not a bad setup for what we needed.

But for the first time I really had some time to test out my rig on a PA and I was shocked as to what the presets sounded like with the boards EQ set to flat. It was so dark and muddy and just weak overall. Like it lost most of its gain. I play through a LP lifeson model. When I dial in presets they definitely dont sound that dark. I usually put the mids around 5-6. The sound guy had to give me a huge mid range boost on the board to get my tone to match what was coming out of my rcf.

I walked over to the rcf and played for him and said, "this is how I wanted it to sound. Why does the pa sound so weak". He boosted the mids and said "does that sound more like what you want?" And it totally was.

My question is, how high do you usually run the mids on your presets? I can't believe the PA would sound so drastically different than my rcf. It's making me rethink all my tones now.


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i have my mids at around 7. is the RCF a vocal monitor? if so, it will be mid-heavy, so when you are dialing you're scooping without even knowing it...or at the very least not adding as much mids as you want/need...
 
Most PA systems are tuned for MOAR BASS MOAR TREBLE. This is great for that new 4 on the floor toe tapper from usher on his iPod for the break music, not so much for vocals and guitars.

Maybe he thought it sounded good? Maybe he didn't know how to mix a "rock" band?

I always want to know what the FOH sounds like because I know they tune it for iPods and a huge mid scoop.
 
There's also Fletcher-Munson which adds the the bass and treble at high volumes, which is why everyone is advised to create their live tones at gig volume. However, having said that, I know that you're no newb at this Bolt, so I would think that perhaps it's another factor, such as the PA, the sound guy, the environment and so on. This is exactly what the Global EQ was created for.
 
This is something i didn't know as i will now be using a FR212 and connect direct to FOH (when available) and not have to worry about having a live preset without cab sim on. I figured i'd only create one set of presets and be done with it.
 
Every PA, every venue will sound different. Even the same PA will sound different depending on how many people are there and environmental factors. This is a fact of life no matter what you play through. The sound man should catch these things, sometime they just prefer something different, don't care, or don't notice. The RCFs do not hype the mids so it isn't that. This one of the reasons we have global eq and effects mix offsets.

In an outdoor venue you are going to have a very different sound than monitors pointed at you. There are so many factors involved. I remember watching Rush at Red Rocks one year. It was a lightly breezy day, as the wind blew you could here the guitars and vocals come and go go while the drum and bass were much less effected.
 
i use two rcf nx10's for monitoring and connect them to the out 1 xlr's. i have the global eq set flat. i use out 2 to go to the desk and set my global eq like this - 31, 63, 8, 16 all at -6db. 125 and 4 at -2db. this pulls enough top and bottom out to compensate for most pa's. rather than adding frequencies you do want, try pulling out the frequencies you don't want.
 
Fabio KTG said:
There's also Fletcher-Munson which adds the the bass and treble at high volumes, which is why everyone is advised to create their live tones at gig volume. However, having said that, I know that you're no newb at this Bolt, so I would think that perhaps it's another factor, such as the PA, the sound guy, the environment and so on. This is exactly what the Global EQ was created for.
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Yes I always dial In my presets at gig levels. But now that I think about it, the PA didnt seem to be that loud, so maybe I was getting the opposite FM effect. He needed to turn up the PA a bit more.

I still my go into my presets and boost the mid range a bit more just to be safe.


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+1 Simeon's post. Except that I have out1 and out2 swapped. Though I rarely have a tube amp on stage any more. I have my Aux (monitor from PreSonus PA board) mix carefully crafted so that I can hear exactly what the FOH is hearing but elevate my vocals a smidgeon so that I can stay on pitch ;-). I go straight from the Axe-Fx to the PreSonus and from there to FOH and Monitor Mix. It's not quite a beautiful as pushing it through a Dynacord Tube amp into a ported 2x12 cab, but I'm not playing at Carnegie Hall either.
 
One thing I noticed is that you have to make sure that the gain is set correctly on the board with whatever your output setting is. I.e. Get your loudest preset and just make sure it's not clipping and don't go any lower than that with the board gain.


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boltrecords said:
But for the first time I really had some time to test out my rig on a PA and I was shocked as to what the presets sounded like with the boards EQ set to flat.

I walked over to the rcf and played for him and said, "this is how I wanted it to sound. Why does the pa sound so weak". He boosted the mids and said "does that sound more like what you want?" And it totally was.

I can't believe the PA would sound so drastically different than my rcf.
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Whether using an Axe FX or real amps miked you are always at the mercy of the sound man personal tastes, their skill (or lack of skill), and the quality of their PA system.

I just saw Cheap Trick play on July 4th and the PA system sounded terrible for the opening act. Sounded like a rapper passing by in a car blaring his stereo.

When Cheap Trick came on the PA sounded great. Just like their records.

After they left, and music was played through the PA for the fireworks, the PA sounded dismal again. All low end. No mids at all, and bad sounding highs.
The PA was actually feeding back on the low end the during Moody Blues song Nights in White Satin.

This is not the first time I have witnessed this kind of incompetence with soundmen. It seems like the new school of sound men all like to cut the mids out completely and boost the low end until it sounds like a rapper blaring his stereo passing by you in his car.

So whether using the Axe FX or miking real amps, we are at the mercy of the quality of PA being used and the skill of the person running it.
 
@bolt: I'd say the main difference is the room here. You say it was an outdoor gig? In that case, you can expect your sound to be a lot different compared to "inside". Having no wall reflections is huge.
 
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