They all sound different (monitor dilemma) - Final verdict

Thanks for your final verdict.

I'm struggling to find the right monitors for me. I'm currently leaning towards the HS8s, because I also play a lot of bass (5-string) with my AxeFX, but I don't want a sub ...
 
It’s kinda weird how so many people in the fractal world focus on Yamaha vs Adam. There is an entire universe of different monitors out there. If I was in the market now I would be going after the APS Klassics or the Hedd 07. I had the Klassics in to try. I loved them but they were too big for the space I was in at the time. I now have the Adam 5’s. The Klassics sounded noticeably more detailed in the mids and smoother top. I’ll probably upgrade at some point now that my space is bigger and treated.
 
Tahoebrian5 said:
It’s kinda weird how so many people in the fractal world focus on Yamaha vs Adam. There is an entire universe of different monitors out there. If I was in the market now I would be going after the APS Klassics or the Hedd 07. I had the Klassics in to try. I loved them but they were too big for the space I was in at the time. I now have the Adam 5’s. The Klassics sounded noticeably more detailed in the mids and smoother top. I’ll probably upgrade at some point now that my space is bigger and treated.
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Actually not just in the Fractal world. The third choice was the Focal, but in the end I preferred the Adams for the front ported bass.
 
Gl4th said:
Exactly. This is why I think the OUT block would benefit from some kind of presets for the more common monitors specific eq curves.
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It's not just frequency of the monitoring though, if you are looking for eq correction for a flat listening environment.

You also need to correct for the sound of the monitoring in your room. The same monitoring units in 3 different rooms will have slightly different EQ curves.
 
Tahoebrian5 said:
It’s kinda weird how so many people in the fractal world focus on Yamaha vs Adam.
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These things go in waves.

I've heard a handful of people joking that you can tell when someone built their home studio by looking at their monitors and remembering what the hot new thing was at various points in time. It's mostly about which exact speakers people claimed sounded better than they had any right to at their price (seriously, it's amazing how often that phrase comes up).

The Yamahas have been popular a lot longer than that would imply. I think at least some amount of that comes from the (very misunderstood) legacy of NS-10s and the fact that HSs look superficially similar to them.

I'm just glad that the world moved on from super-scooped Rokits. Those speakers have their place. I still like them for super low volume guitar monitors, and the pair of RP5s I bought as GC floor models for $200 are still going strong 16 years later when I need them for something. But, basically all of the new(ish) entry level monitors are much better speakers.
 
I wanted the APS Klasik 2020 but they’re almost impossible to find right now. Was considering Focus, Adam, and Neumann, but ended up with KRK V6S4. Really like them.
 
Tahoebrian5 said:
It’s kinda weird how so many people in the fractal world focus on Yamaha vs Adam. There is an entire universe of different monitors out there. If I was in the market now I would be going after the APS Klassics or the Hedd 07. I had the Klassics in to try. I loved them but they were too big for the space I was in at the time. I now have the Adam 5’s. The Klassics sounded noticeably more detailed in the mids and smoother top. I’ll probably upgrade at some point now that my space is bigger and treated.
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I assume it’s some US availability or brand recognition thing. Here in Finland Genelec has been the brand people aspire to get and what you see in a lot in studios too, whether it’s older or newer models. I bought my M040s back in the day as they seemed to compare favorably to the more expensive 8040 models.
 
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dr bonkers said:
It's not just frequency of the monitoring though, if you are looking for eq correction for a flat listening environment.

You also need to correct for the sound of the monitoring in your room. The same monitoring units in 3 different rooms will have slightly different EQ curves.
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It’s the same for cabs, no?
 
dr bonkers said:
Yep. That's why some cabs sound good in some rooms with certain settings and need different eq settings or mics when putting the cab in a different physical room. That's also why some people hate certain cabs in certain rooms.
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Exactly. So why to simulate cabs and not monitors ;)? It’s something extra that I’m sure can be done to some degree.
 
Gl4th said:
Exactly. So why to simulate cabs and not monitors ;)? It’s something extra that I’m sure can be done to some degree.
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If people want to play through monitors rather than cabs, it makes sense to do.

If you are still going to listen through those monitors in your room, then you are better off getting Room EQ Wizard and a flat measurement mic to create your own curve to flatten the monitoring curve in your room.

Fractal can't predict every monitor choice and room geometry.
 
I have several sets of monitors including the Yamaha's and I can say from experience that it does make a huge difference which monitor you use when making presets. With the Yamaha's I tended to cut highs and high mids on my mixes and presets, which didn't translate well on other systems. Then I got the Presonus Sceptre's and it was ear opening to say the least. It totally changed my mixes and preset making for the better. But I still wasn't finding the translation to be perfect on other speakers, but it was a lot closer. Enter the Sonarworks 4 software. I took the time to go through every set of speakers that I have and run the software/make presets for all of them, including my headphones. What a major difference across all speakers. did they all sound the same after? not a chance, but it was a lot closer. the biggest difference was that I was hearing both left and right speakers sounding exactly the same and it made things much easier for me when it came time to eq. I still didn't like what I was hearing but thankfully the software will let you tweak the tone a little. I found that I needed to change the boost and shift to +6db to hear what sounded right or better to my ears. I actually would be have liked it if the bass boost could go another 3db higher. lol.

Sonarworks 4 was the game changer for me. well worth the money I spent for the software and the calibrated microphone.
 
Singtall said:
Sonarworks 4 was the game changer for me. well worth the money I spent for the software and the calibrated microphone.
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Absolutely! i got the full fledged sound id version on black friday, and it works a charm! Completely changed how i tweak and being able to eliminate almost all post amp eqbecause i am able to dial it better, helps alot with ir selection too. I have transferred and saved multiple curves of various headphones /earphones from sonar works on cab block, which i switch between apart from the flat ones for monitors.
Until this i was messing with the global eq and peq blocks in chain.

If you wanna tweak the bass boost 3db higher do it via global eq on axe maybe, that can help reach a tad further.
 
Singtall said:
I have several sets of monitors including the Yamaha's and I can say from experience that it does make a huge difference which monitor you use when making presets. With the Yamaha's I tended to cut highs and high mids on my mixes and presets, which didn't translate well on other systems. Then I got the Presonus Sceptre's and it was ear opening to say the least. It totally changed my mixes and preset making for the better. But I still wasn't finding the translation to be perfect on other speakers, but it was a lot closer. Enter the Sonarworks 4 software. I took the time to go through every set of speakers that I have and run the software/make presets for all of them, including my headphones. What a major difference across all speakers. did they all sound the same after? not a chance, but it was a lot closer. the biggest difference was that I was hearing both left and right speakers sounding exactly the same and it made things much easier for me when it came time to eq. I still didn't like what I was hearing but thankfully the software will let you tweak the tone a little. I found that I needed to change the boost and shift to +6db to hear what sounded right or better to my ears. I actually would be have liked it if the bass boost could go another 3db higher. lol.

Sonarworks 4 was the game changer for me. well worth the money I spent for the software and the calibrated microphone.
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This is why jerks like me say to treat your room and then do software correction (they all work) as a finishing touch. Neither alone really gets all the way there unless you've got a huge budget and the ability to do a construction project.

And, sadly, the foam panels so many people use don't actually do anything productive....they just tame flutter echo without evening out the response at all. There really aren't any shortcuts to getting great sound. And once you've heard it, you can't un-hear it.

Have you tried the B&K 1974 target curve in SW? A lot of careful thought went into it. It won't get modern club earth-shaking bass, but if you still call that lacking bass....it's definitely time to look into treatments and subs.
 
marsonic said:
his is why jerks like me say to treat your room and then do software correction (they all work) as a finishing touch. Neither alone really gets all the way there unless you've got a huge budget and the ability to do a construction project.
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While i fully agree on the objectiveness of what you said ,not everyone will want to construct a room, where they can have the best treatment possible, even if they got the funds as life has many priorities and constructing a perfect room with best treatment is not on top of list for many hobbyists etc. But that doesn't mean they don't want to hear well or don't deserve to, or that if what they are hearing is not almost flat its not right.

At the end the day the quest for neutrality and flat sound, shouldn't make one lose the ability to create references out of the sound they are already hearing whether or not flat or tending towards it, if you can tweak the sound you are listening to and are able to create a comfortable baseline in your mind , one can definitely understand how it would reflect on other systems.

There's a lot of great musicians online producing great records/ tracks without the ideal setups/ room correction , or even just having the basic problematic foam treatment you mention, which is testament to the wonders developing good ears can do .
 
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