Mark's Tone
Power User
political content removed
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Audit coming soon to a conservative near you.
Flat taxer here!
Then federal internet tax kicks in,,,
The facts are easily verified by anyone who chooses to review them independently. It's all a matter of public record. If you choose to believe a site like the one you cited, that's your choice. I personally prefer things with less tinfoil.
Anyway, let's keep discussions on this site about the music.
No, no they didn't break "the law", and that's why they weren't prosecuted.
Facts can be inconvenient for some who don't like the source of those facts. If that's the case for you, reference another site that you've decided to trust or another source of information that is unbiased in your "opinion".
They weren't prosecuted because the law enforcement apparatus of Our Country couldn't prove a case against them.
Period.
The facts are easily verified by anyone who chooses to review them independently. It's all a matter of public record. If you choose to believe a site like the one you cited, that's your choice. I personally prefer things with less tinfoil.
Anyway, let's keep discussions on this site about the music.
The Criminal Enforcement Agreement also reveals that the government might have exercised more discretion in its 2011 enforcement effort. Though Gibson’s use in 2011 of the same German wood supplier that provided it with the 2009 seized shipment and irregularities in the shipping paperwork might have justified the government’s suspicions, the illegality (or legality) of the 2011 shipment was far from obvious.
Yes, be a good litle sheep.
Alway's believe everything that is fed to you by the main stream media.
Never question politics, they get their election money from their own savings account....:lol
OK, you are seriously crossing the line on civility here.
I am not an American, for a start. Please remember this is an international forum, not an American one.
Well, Manning, since the basis of this thread is obviously deeply rooted in politics (current IRS scandal) and the treatment of Gibson Guitars (musical instruments that have relevance on pretty much any guitar-oriented forum), it's kind of hard to stay on topic without examining both the legal and political angles at play here. As long as we keep it civil, no harm, ok?
Instead, I'll cite the NY Times for you:
A Closer Look at Gibson Guitar's Legal Troubles - NYTimes.com
And here is Gibson's own response to the settlement:
Gibson Guitar: Gibson Comments on Department of Justice Settlement
Now I'm all for clarity, and if Gibson knowingly screwed up, then bad on THEM (I've stated this before when the topic came up on the forum a long time ago). According to the NYTimes story, Gibson appears to have recognized their "mea culpa" with respect to the shipments from Madagascar, paid the fines and forfeited the ill-gotten wood (as a result of the first raid). Fair enough.
As for the second raid with respect to imports from INDIA, this is less clear, and the feds appear to have admitted that they may have been a bit hyper-vigilant in pursuing Gibson:
Now, as a personal take on all of this, it is up to Gibson to know the applicable laws and comply, like it or not. They get caught, their problem and so be it - time to pay the piper. OTOH, I disagree that military style armed raids were necessary and a wise use of tax resources (I can only imagine how much this cost the taxpayer). Were the feds really expecting a shootout at the OK corral from one of the most prestigious guitar companies on the planet, and over some pallets of imported wood? Extreme, unnecessary, wasteful and all for "show" IMO.
[short soapbox bloviating rant]
My broader point is this: where are these effective watchdog agencies when we really need them? Those charged with keeping an eye on Wall Street were evidently asleep at the switch prior to the financial meltdown of 2008. Did anyone's head roll for this massive lack of oversight? Nope? Incompetence all around, yet the very government agencies that are there to protect us from such gigantic mishaps missed the boat completely, even when they were warned. I'm sorry, but I've grown very wary of the motives of some of these all-powerful government agencies. Living in Massachusetts, I've seen year after year the corruption, abuse of power and wastefulness at their hands. Even when they are caught red handed, it is brushed under the rug, no big deal, nothing to see here.
So, apologies for being so cynical. Until you see firsthand what can happen to individuals and small businesses at the hands of over-eager bureaucrats, you may not sympathize. As we're seeing with the IRS scandals, there ARE times when the general public needs to be protected FROM the powers that be...and then, where do you turn?
OK, you are seriously crossing the line on civility here.
I am not an American, for a start. Please remember this is an international forum, not an American one.