Tap tempo in Axe fx not very accurate?

Bodde

Bodde

Fractal Fanatic
I always had this problem with tap tempo ever since I have my Axe fx. With other delay machines that have tap tempo I can get the tempo very precise with the music or an external metronome but with the Axe fx I have much trouble with this. It is never right no matter if I use front panel or MFC or an external footswitch (I have tried it all). Axe Edit not attached. Any ideas what this can be? and how many times do you guys tap to get it as accurate as possible?
 
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It uses an average to get the tempo.
the tempo is averaged over the number of taps, up to ten taps. If more then ten taps are entered the average is over the last ten. The averaging is reset if more than two seconds elapse between taps.
 
It might also depend a little bit on how sensitive you are to the timing. On the original MFC units, they used snap switches that put up a bit of resistance to being switched. If you weren't really aggressive, it would be easy to end up with a different timing gap than what you thought you applied. The switches on the newer units don't fight as much.
 
Cagey said:
It might also depend a little bit on how sensitive you are to the timing. On the original MFC units, they used snap switches that put up a bit of resistance to being switched. If you weren't really aggressive, it would be easy to end up with a different timing gap than what you thought you applied. The switches on the newer units don't fight as much.
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Yes, but I have the same problem when using the front panel or an external Boss switch. To me it seems like there is some latency in the knobs or transmission of the taps something. For me it is almost impossible to get the tempo right whereas on other tap tempo machines I don't have this problem.
 
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javajunkie said:
It uses an average to get the tempo.
the tempo is averaged over the number of taps, up to ten taps. If more then ten taps are entered the average is over the last ten. The averaging is reset if more than two seconds elapse between taps.
Click to expand...

fascinating. i always assumed it took only the two most recent taps.
 
Bodde said:
Yes, but I have the same problem when using the front panel or an external Boss switch. To me it seems like there is some latency in the knobs or transmission of the taps something. For me it is almost impossible to get the tempo right whereas on other tap tempo machines I don't have this problem.
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Forgive me for asking a stupid question, just wanted to help you out: Are you sure that the polarity on your external boss footswitch is correct? If it isn't then I understand it being troublesome. If it is then I don't know what it could be...
 
brokenvail said:
This is why I only tap twice. The more taps I do the greater chance if it being a bit off how how I want it
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That is a great tip!

I don't care to be exact with my tempo based efx, but I've not been able to get a really tight tap matched tempo either as in the OP.
 
miketheman said:
Forgive me for asking a stupid question, just wanted to help you out: Are you sure that the polarity on your external boss footswitch is correct? If it isn't then I understand it being troublesome. If it is then I don't know what it could be...
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Yes polarity is correct. But as I have stated I have trouble no matter what I use or do: front panel, MFC or external pedal. I have tried tapping 2, 4 or more times but somehow it just very hard to get it right. I have checked it with an external metronome. Most of the times it is way off.

Just to be sure: as stated by Javajunkie; it uses the average of the taps to calculate the tempo. So it doesn't matter whether you tap 2 or 3 times when you are playing in 4/4? or that you tap 2 times when you are in 3/4?
 
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Bodde said:
Just to be sure: as stated by Javajunkie; it uses the average of the taps to calculate the tempo. So it doesn't matter whether you tap 2 or 3 times when you are playing in 4/4? or that you tap 2 times when you are in 3/4?
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Correct Bodde. The gap is measured, so the gap between 2 taps would theoretically be the same as the average of 10 taps, if your tapping was spot-on.

I don't like averages because it means if you tap wayward once, you can barely correct it and will have to be tapping a while to try and do so. I prefer a "last two taps" approach, because sometimes your first or second tap might involve a stumble or other "getting into it" type of thing. My first or second tap was always a touch off for these reasons - misjudging the pressure, height of the switch, etc
 
Wolfenstein98k said:
I don't like averages because it means if you tap wayward once, you can barely correct it and will have to be tapping a while to try and do so. I prefer a "last two taps" approach, because sometimes your first or second tap might involve a stumble or other "getting into it" type of thing. My first or second tap was always a touch off for these reasons - misjudging the pressure, height of the switch, etc
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I guess you could try to 'ghost tap' the first two beats in the air just above the tap button and then tap for real on the button for beat 3 and 4.
I have experimented (again) some more today with the tap tempo on the front panel. Comparing the results to an external metronome. Seems a little unpredictable to me. Sometimes I am off by only two (so for example BPM 102 instead of 100, which is not bad), but other times I am way off and I don't feel I really do anything different.
 
I wonder what approach the Boss DD-20 uses. I've owned a bunch of delays and out of all of them, the Boss was the easiest to get the tempo right. For some reason, it's just not as easy for me to sync the Axe. Although it's not really an issue for me now since I use a Time Bandit with our click track.

John
 
This ^

If you only tap twice, and happen to not get your timing right, your tempo will be way off. If you tap 10 times your chances are much better at being accurate over the average. This has always worked well for me.
 
I don't really notice much difference myself in accuracy between tapping 2, 4 or more times.
As an experiment I tried tempo tapping between the beats, on the afterbeats. Works better for not too fast tempos.

randolfo said:
I think you have a better chance of matching the tempo with more taps, as the tempo is set by averaging time between taps (unless this has changed in the last year).

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-wish-list/71711-improved-tap-tempo-averaging.html
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thanks for the link. Didn't know about the changes in FW. Haven't noticed any difference in the tap tempo accuracy though.
 
jefferski said:
This ^

If you only tap twice, and happen to not get your timing right, your tempo will be way off. If you tap 10 times your chances are much better at being accurate over the average. This has always worked well for me.
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I am pretty solid with two taps. I am not sure about others but I don't have time to do 10 taps
 
jefferski said:
This ^

If you only tap twice, and happen to not get your timing right, your tempo will be way off. If you tap 10 times your chances are much better at being accurate over the average. This has always worked well for me.
Click to expand...

But the way it is now, your tempo will only be right if you're off by an averaged equal amount both ways, too short and too long... so basically, you're mathematically eliminating your chances of nailing the tempo with each additional tap. Tapping twice works great, but not if you flub the chance. I'd prefer a more traditional tap tempo function. I go into a couple more reasons in the wish below:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-wish-list/89819-chose-last-2-tap-tempo-option.html
 
The tap button on the Axe seems a little weird to me, I notice if you press the button and hold it the tempo shoots up to the maximum very quickly. Is this not a bug? I've never seen a tap tempo on a drum machine etc that works like this, on my Roland 505 here only the initial press is registered, leaving your finger on the button has no effect. I have a virtual metronome program on my PC and the tap on this is the same too.

So it seems to me if you want to get accurate results with the Axe you need to focus a lot on your tapping technique and make sure you use a very staccato approach, ie you have to make sure to lift your finger off the button immediately after each tap to have any hope of getting the tempo right. Usually I just give up and use the dial instead. I'm no drummer but I have a decent sense of time and don't have this issue with other devices. Hopefully this can be fixed/improved.
 
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