Steve Vai Doesn't Like Amp Modeling - Rick Beato Interview

[Zedhed]

Interesting interview. At 7:45 Rick asks him about the AxeFX. Steve Vai says he doesn't care for modeling for live use due to the latency & lack of cut. 9:45 "Can't compete with [the rest of what's going on.]" Apparently he only uses it for the effects.

Gee I wish he'd tell us what toilet paper he uses so I could go out & buy it just so I could be like him.

 

[pima1234]

Here's the thing, he's a long-time guitar hero (and song writer) for good reason, no question. One of my first real inspirations, and I definitely can't come anywhere close to playing at his level. But, in all honesty Passion and Warfare is still my favorite. And that is not to say that he hasn't created quality and inspiring music since then. What he did on his first 2 albums was highly influential and unique. And hey, maybe I'm still stuck in my childhood.

I get what he's saying, sort of. I have a couple analog amp modeling pedals, and there are times when I just enjoy using them instead of digital modeling and IRs. Even just running pedals or my FX8 into the front end of a simple tube amp with no loop is really enjoyable.

And, I would like to think that live, his reason given in that video for not connecting to amp/cab modeling would be more related to his monitoring.

 

[pima1234]

Gee I wish he'd tell us what toilet paper he uses so I could go out & buy it just so I could be like him.

Brutal! lol

 

[yek]

Exactly. The obsession over tweaking every paramater in a digtal box to get it where you want it vs. a tube amp which sounds amazing with knobs at noon. It makes sense why Steve does this. At least for now tube amps will be king. Maybe some time in the future (5, 10 years) modelers will have the feel and response of a tube amp.

@BigMike
Which Fractal modeler do you own?

 

[Chromatizm]

As it should be. I’ve often been irked by those that can most afford to buy their gear themselves get it for free. Something just feels wrong with that.

Marketing investments come in many forms. Nothing wrong with having $2k invested in am particular name just to have many users buy you product simply because they saw someone they worship uses it.
In fact, I wish more pro users who have never tried it/almost never see it because everyone around them use some different product, got they free unit and become believers.

 

[David Tesch]

I'm considering maybe going with a Fryette like Steve has for power amp paired with the AXEFX. I still have three Mesa 4x12s, and a MKIII and MKV, but I'm thinking of using my AxeFXIII modeling plus the Fryette for a live sound instead... I dunno, I'm not really needing it exactly at the moment but I'm kicking it around to be prepared.

 

[Feflicker]

Which Fractal modeler do you own?

Yep. That guys post made sense if it was posted in 2006.

 

[flitz]

Yep. That guys post made sense if it was posted in 2006.

Sort to say sometimes they don`t even own a FAS unit at all when making such kind of threads, may be that`s why he is asking…

 

[chucma]

That interview is over 4 years old, so much has changed since then, especially with Fractal's firmware updates. Definitely not a good reference.

 

[Rotti]

oh no...
I

 

[m4ssi]

Cliff has also stated that Fractal does not do paid endorsements or free units to anyone. Fractal artists buy their units just like everyone else.

Really? If is true.....chapeau to Fractal.

I don't like companies that really abuse the youtuber......they do a "new" Klon or TS, sell it for 250€ and everyone on youtube says that is like a miracle.....after two months again the same story with just another brand name on the chassis of the pedals.....
That's one of the main reason i love digital. You choose based on your hears.

 

[sprint]

I’ve often been irked by those that can most afford to buy their gear themselves get it for free. Something just feels wrong with that.

Irked? Not sure why - its a transaction for services rendered, just being paid in product rather than $ (wrong would be giving poor me product for free since they'd get diddly in return)

 

[Kriig]

Any mention of latency makes me highly sceptical of anyone criticising modelling.

I have had an Axe (Ultra, II, now III Turbo) since mid 2009, so i'm fairly used to modeling.

When i go directly from my Cornford + 4x12 and over to my Axe i do notice a small difference.
In particular when i don't use fx and run a dry amp.

After some minutes i don't, but switching A/B i do, so it's not "out there" to notice this.
I have done this many times, to try to match my MK50 to the "Cornrob" model.
It's a diffrence if i stand 2-3 m further away from the cab too. Nothing to worry about, but i do notice and latency is a fact.

Using 1 amp with a 3 band eq simplifies a lot live (if you need to tweak for the room)

I like both tubes and my Axe and i use whatever makes me inspired on any given day. Right now it is a simple setup.

Cornford MK50 (dry into a 4x12) -->
Suhr RL--> Boss SDE-3000EVH -->Poly Verbs-->
Mesa 295 -->2x12 and a 4x12 for WD/WD.

Sounds huge and I can play loud at home

 

[Adman103]

Cliff has also stated that Fractal does not do paid endorsements or free units to anyone. Fractal artists buy their units just like everyone else.

Yea, I listen to gear podcasts and YouTube on my way to and from work everyday, and man, everyone on those programs rants and raves about helix, or QC, or more recently the ToneX stuff, and on those programs, it's like Fractal doesn't even exist, but of course, they're paid to talk those products up. Really, I'm sitting there listening to a podcast or video that has ads, which is really written to be a giant (and somewhat more subtle) ad for whatever brand's paying them, just so I get my undies in a bunch and go out and buy the latest thing...

It's stupid, and weird (although entirely typical given how the economy works) that there's this entire hype machine ecosystem to get guitarists to be constantly redoing rigs...

and in the meantime, my Axe rocks out better than any of them. Probably time to clean out the podcast and YT subscriptions.

 

[Ryan Pullin]

Gee I wish he'd tell us what toilet paper he uses so I could go out & buy it just so I could be like him.

I don’t care what he says, cottonelle is the

 

[Ryan Pullin]

Exactly. The obsession over tweaking every paramater in a digtal box to get it where you want it vs. a tube amp which sounds amazing with knobs at noon. It makes sense why Steve does this. At least for now tube amps will be king. Maybe some time in the future (5, 10 years) modelers will have the feel and response of a tube amp.

Like a lot of people here most likely, having tube amps as well as an Axe FX has let me try a lot of combos of power amp units (fryette lxII and SD PS700), real cabs, FRFR cabs, and studio monitors; as well as playing in ears at my church and only going direct with the Axe FX.

I’ve been hard pressed to find a substantial difference between a tube amp through a cab compared to the axe fx going into a power amp and into a cab. Most people seem to take the element of legit air being pushed as “the real deal” sound. The axe fx is more than capable of amazing tones with amazing feel through a power amp, even solid state like the PS700, and through a cab pushing real air.

I don’t find it significantly, or even remotely, different than running a real tube amp. We’re already at the point that people thinking there’s a significant enough difference to justify one being better than the other is most likely psychosomatic.

 

[skategeezer]

Interesting interview. At 7:45 Rick asks him about the AxeFX. Steve Vai says he doesn't care for modeling for live use due to the latency & lack of cut. 9:45 "Can't compete with [the rest of what's going on.]" Apparently he only uses it for the effects.

My only concern here is that this misinformation gets spread as fact by players like Vai who rely on their endorsement money.
I just shake my head at the nonsense he spouts about latency.
It really does come down to we like the gear we like. And I love my Fractal Gear.
I live by the saying of John Surh.
"Practice cures most tone issues"

 

[Adman103]

Like a lot of people here most likely, having tube amps as well as an Axe FX has let me try a lot of combos of power amp units (fryette lxII and SD PS700), real cabs, FRFR cabs, and studio monitors; as well as playing in ears at my church and only going direct with the Axe FX.

I’ve been hard pressed to find a substantial difference between a tube amp through a cab compared to the axe fx going into a power amp and into a cab. Most people seem to take the element of legit air being pushed as “the real deal” sound. The axe fx is more than capable of amazing tones with amazing feel through a power amp, even solid state like the PS700, and through a cab pushing real air.

I don’t find it significantly, or even remotely, different than running a real tube amp. We’re already at the point that people thinking there’s a significant enough difference to justify one being better than the other is most likely psychosomatic.

Yea, I agree. There's a bunch of different ways to get great sounds these days, and at this point, I think I've tried just about every way of amplifying the Axe Fx (as a pedalboard into the front of tube amp, 4CM with a tube amp, W/D/W with all tube amps, FRFR stereo, Axe into a power amp into a cab, Axe into the power amp of a tube amp into a cab...)
and as long as you understand how to set up each scenario, they all sound excellent! The same? No, but they shouldn't. A set of studio monitors shouldn't be the same as a 4x12 W/D/W rig pumping air right next to you. But each setup really sounded great, and the Axe handles them all equally well. I could be totally fine with any of those solutions in the long term. My most often used setup? Axe straight to the board, done and done.
A lot of folks get really hung up on this stuff, as to which sounds better, "more realer", etc etc ad nauseam. They can all sound great, but absolutely none of them will sound better than you, as a player, sounds. One of my favorite overdrives, the Blackstone Overdrive, has some good advice printed on the circuitboard of the pedal:

 

[SASouth]

Irked? Not sure why - its a transaction for services rendered, just being paid in product rather than $ (wrong would be giving poor me product for free since they'd get diddly in return)

What services rendered? Just because someone is famous and these manufacturers give them free stuff and hope someone will see them using their device? There is something wrong with this idea that the more wealthy or famous you are the more stuff you get for free.

Screw that. You’re rich, buy your own stuff and don’t take handouts. Endorse it because it’s good not because you’re getting paid and showered with free stuff.

 

[sprint]

What services rendered?

The popular artist name and/or image associated with the gear manufacturer's product (which helps the manufacturer sell the product)

Just because someone is famous and these manufacturers give them free stuff and hope someone will see them using their device?

Yup, thats pretty much how it works.

There is something wrong with this idea that the more wealthy or famous you are the more stuff you get for free.

Nope - Skills have value and can be sold - if you work to gain popularity, that popularity can be sold for $ (or gear if you want to be paid like that). No different than you or I going to work each day selling our skills to our employers (tho if my employment is as a top selling artist, the scale is quite a bit larger - congrats to me).

Always amusing how "free" is often defined here