Starship SN8

Well, it's an opinion I have, nothing more nothing less. I understand now that technically speaking things did thus happen close to alright. Personnally I'm just pissed because this guy intends to send a few 42000 satellites in space (ie about twice the quantity we shoot up there since the sixties), polluting for eternity our worldwide common property "the nightly skyview" that has been relatively untouched since birth of humanity All that just to have one or maybe 2 generations of humanity profit from a thing called internet. I - but just me - cannot see how anybody can be proud of such a person who's just doing this for his personal profit. This guy personalises for me the extreme extend of abuse of natural ressources for his own cupid and stupid neoliberalist interest; financed for a big part by taxes. I know this might hurt the thoughts of some people and hereby excuse myself for that. As I said it's just an opinion. So yes for me it is and remains : "Musk and his clique". I'm sorry.
Absurdity. Elon Musk is so far beyond wealthy he doesn't need to do anything anymore and hasn't since Zip2, X.com and freakin' PayPal, and hasn't for a long time. Everything he's done since hasn't been for profit, it's about solving problems. Profitablity is a side issue.

Your problem with him stems from the central problem that you can't think beyond your own narrow views and get on his level, Bill Gates' level, because you don't have the freedom to exist on the same plane of existence. Because you are the type of person you are, in whatever cognitive situation you find yourself in, you simply cannot grasp the idea of an individual gathering the resources he has, using the drive that he has to go after making electric cars (and forcing an entire industry to follow suit), clearing gridlock, providing internet on a global scale, and colonizing another planet.

Everything you wrote saddens me. I'm truly baffled at how anyone can take cynicism to such an extreme. Honestly it's so hyperbolic it seems contrived, like you're trolling.

I'm sorry but it's time to filter you out. I won't be seeing any responses.
 
Elon says there's no such thing as "rocket science". There's only "rocket engineering". This is engineering. What they're doing here hasn't been done before. If you consider what's going on, the fuel is sloshing around inside in the main tank, subject to gravity. There's a bit of fuel in special tanks inside, enough to re-ignite the engine and switch to a vertical position so that main fuel tank could be used. Apparently that did not happen decisively enough, and the engine burned oxidizer-rich mixture, thereby burning up itself (hence the green flame - that's copper alloy of some sort burning in oxygen). They'll get it right in 2-3 tries. 95% of the flight was exactly as planned, which is better than they were hoping to get in this test. This is by the way the most advanced engine ever designed, better than the Soviet stuff NASA has been using for a couple decades. How those dudes designed RD180 with just slide rules I will never understand.

Also kudos to SpaceX for not being chickenshit and broadcasting the unsuccessful tests as well. We've never seen that before. A lot of companies these days pay lip service to "innovation", but do not tolerate failure internally. So they can't really do innovation, because to do it you need to fail repeatedly, then try again.
 
It would have crashed on any number of villages and killed hundreds (theyve done this) because they still use absurdly toxic unsymmetrical hypergolic rocket fuels.
I actually wonder why that is. Russians only use the "bad" stuff on unmanned flights (Proton and satellite launches on some lighter vehicles). Manned flights use kerosene. I've read a book about the development of rocket fuels ("Ignition!" which I recommend if you're into engineering porn) and the main reason to use N2O4/Hydrazine/UDMH and other similar fuels is that they're not cryogenic. But that doesn't seem like that big a deal in a civilian rocket, and moreover, cryo fuels can be used to cool down the bell of the rocket engine.
 
Nah...that'll be the first civilian passenger flight.

When that thing falls out of the sky and flips vertical to land at the last f-ing second in a raging inferno of thrust, there will definitely be a "brown sound" coming from all the passengers on the flight.

I did wonder while watching if they would have maneuvered the same way if there were actual people inside. SN8 turned its tail down quick when it decided it was time!
 
I actually wonder why that is. Russians only use the "bad" stuff on unmanned flights (Proton and satellite launches on some lighter vehicles). Manned flights use kerosene. I've read a book about the development of rocket fuels ("Ignition!" which I recommend if you're into engineering porn) and the main reason to use N2O4/Hydrazine/UDMH and other similar fuels is that they're not cryogenic. But that doesn't seem like that big a deal in a civilian rocket, and moreover, cryo fuels can be used to cool down the bell of the rocket engine.

I was going to mention "Ignition!" if somebody hadn't already, it's a scary, hilarious, and very nerdy read. I was fairly astonished at the idea of using already-hot fuels to cool a rocket bell, and how those things are built to pull it off.

BTW, I think everybody should go through the mental exercise of thinking what a beautiful, elegant idea hypergolic fuels are, and then understanding how ornery, and well, batshit insane they are in real-life application. Kinda like learning a second language, or going from classical to modern physics.
 
I was going to mention "Ignition!" if somebody hadn't already, it's a scary, hilarious, and very nerdy read. I was fairly astonished at the idea of using already-hot fuels to cool a rocket bell, and how those things are built to pull it off.

BTW, I think everybody should go through the mental exercise of thinking what a beautiful, elegant idea hypergolic fuels are, and then understanding how ornery, and well, batshit insane they are in real-life application. That kind of thing really opens up the mind, kinda like learning a second language, or going from classical to modern physics.
 
Absurdity. Elon Musk is so far beyond wealthy he doesn't need to do anything anymore and hasn't since Zip2, X.com and freakin' PayPal, and hasn't for a long time. Everything he's done since hasn't been for profit, it's about solving problems. Profitablity is a side issue.

Your problem with him stems from the central problem that you can't think beyond your own narrow views and get on his level, Bill Gates' level, because you don't have the freedom to exist on the same plane of existence. Because you are the type of person you are, in whatever cognitive situation you find yourself in, you simply cannot grasp the idea of an individual gathering the resources he has, using the drive that he has to go after making electric cars (and forcing an entire industry to follow suit), clearing gridlock, providing internet on a global scale, and colonizing another planet.

Everything you wrote saddens me. I'm truly baffled at how anyone can take cynicism to such an extreme. Honestly it's so hyperbolic it seems contrived, like you're trolling.

I'm sorry but it's time to filter you out. I won't be seeing any responses.

I don't feel concerned in any point by your opinions on me, and BTW you're probably far away enough ;-) not to be.

Maybe do some introspection about narrowmindness and cynism; about how other parts of humanity outside your world think and live, and then try to return on those two subjects.

Not having the level nor the income or performance of someone else doesnt exclude anybode from the right to have his own point of view of things based on how things actually present themselves and also question the "the net result beyond money and glory".

Pushing in the environment 42 000 satelites and millions of high grade batteries for cars - because you have the power to do so - is without any doubt solving problems on the short run, for a little comfort during a temporary existence, but is also creating bigger and extremely costly problems on the long run. I'm not sure that the actual wealth of Mr Musk can cover these costs, that will remain at charge of the entire humanity.

In the same way the world will be facing a problem regarding nuclear waste and deconstruction of nuclear power plants (even if as a narrowminded man I'm not against nuclear energy, OMG). ie : We profited for decades of cheap energy to have warm water and heat ourselves, but it was cheap because we did not take into account the cost of deconstruction at end of life of these plants nor the research it needs to search for a solution to the waste problem this energy generates, for thousands of years.

Wealthyness is a very discussable concept if one includes the corresponding 'global' debt that has been created due to acquire this wealth. It's one of the flaws of capitalism (and I am a capitalist, but just one who didn't stop thinking) : not discount the global ressources that are consumed of the added value that was created. It's a bit like burning your ship at landing...(in the context I suggest to replace ship by "rocket")

Honors to Bill Gates who's actually doing fabulous things for humanity and especially in Africa, that's exactly how things should go.

Anyway, what had to be said has been said and also I think this philosophic approach effectively was not the subject of the thread. End of my participation and hoping strongly that Mr Musk will manage to have cars driving to destination all alone. 35000 miles a year on the road and twice so much in the air is a lot of timeloss (and pollution btw), and I really look forward to be able to do something useful during driving time.

And eh, have a nice day anyway !
 
People who worry about "42K satellites" do not have a firm grasp on how insanely large space is and how small those satellites are in comparison to it. You will see nothing with naked eye even if there are ten times as many satellites of this size (which there eventually will be, with or without Musk). The issue with telescopes is easily resolved by making the earth-facing side of the satellites black. My understanding is SpaceX is doing this already.
 
I was going to mention "Ignition!" if somebody hadn't already, it's a scary, hilarious, and very nerdy read.

As difficult as it may be to believe (for those who haven't read it), it reads like a thriller cover to cover. I wonder if innovation of this magnitude is even possible in the context of US government nowadays. 50s-60s seems like another, more audacious era. Going to the Moon a couple of times a year, nuclear aircraft engines, inventing new rocket fuels and materials. We don't know how to do any of this anymore. Musk actually mentioned this once - this is not something you just retain by default. You have to work on it to just keep it, and work harder to advance it further. I think this stuff is the real, actual "culture" of our civilization, not art (especially not "modern" art) or music.
 
People who worry about "42K satellites" do not have a firm grasp on how insanely large space is and how small those satellites are in comparison to it. You will see nothing with naked eye even if there are ten times as many satellites of this size (which there eventually will be, with or without Musk). The issue with telescopes is easily resolved by making the earth-facing side of the satellites black. My understanding is SpaceX is doing this already.
This is a scientific concern, not just "ecologic or collapse founded" criticising. It's urgent people stop to polarise and to qualify everybody who thinks different as being retrograde, limited or whatsoever. SpaceX are working on this, but experience should have learned us that in case of doubt it is urgent to wait.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how...k-satellites-earth-effects-stars-2020-10?IR=T
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-sky-by-launching-42-000-satellites-g5g0l2mg6
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/science/spacex-starlink-astronomy.html
https://www.dia.mil/Portals/27/Docu...r Publications/Space_Threat_V14_020119_sm.pdf read appendix A

Last post whatever be the return, I need to get to guitar playing !
 
Well, it's an opinion I have, nothing more nothing less. I understand now that technically speaking things did thus happen close to alright. Personnally I'm just pissed because this guy intends to send a few 42000 satellites in space (ie about twice the quantity we shoot up there since the sixties), polluting for eternity our worldwide common property "the nightly skyview" that has been relatively untouched since birth of humanity All that just to have one or maybe 2 generations of humanity profit from a thing called internet. I - but just me - cannot see how anybody can be proud of such a person who's just doing this for his personal profit. This guy personalises for me the extreme extend of abuse of natural ressources for his own cupid and stupid neoliberalist interest; financed for a big part by taxes. I know this might hurt the thoughts of some people and hereby excuse myself for that. As I said it's just an opinion. So yes for me it is and remains : "Musk and his clique". I'm sorry.
I find the irony of reading this on the internet amusing.
 
As difficult as it may be to believe (for those who haven't read it), it reads like a thriller cover to cover. I wonder if innovation of this magnitude is even possible in the context of US government nowadays. 50s-60s seems like another, more audacious era. Going to the Moon a couple of times a year, nuclear aircraft engines, inventing new rocket fuels and materials. We don't know how to do any of this anymore. Musk actually mentioned this once - this is not something you just retain by default. You have to work on it to just keep it, and work harder to advance it further. I think this stuff is the real, actual "culture" of our civilization, not art (especially not "modern" art) or music.

Having grown up on the edge of the Hanford reservation, and working for a government contractor for 30-odd years, I have to say the US government can't fund that kind of innovation any more. At least the Office of Science within the Department of Energy can't. They have a mania for avoiding risk now that is hard to even comprehend. Of course if you know about things like the Green Run, human experiments, and appalling environmental neglect that the Atomic Energy Commission pulled while it existed, you can see the other (negative) side of runaway innovation. And understand why there's a very different approach to all things nuclear these days compared to the 50s and 60s.
 
Those feet are actually pretty high tech in spite of their modest looks. Apparently their structure is such that they partially crumple on impact in a controlled fashion, absorbing the energy in the process, much like crumple zones in a car.
 
This is a scientific concern, not just "ecologic or collapse founded" criticising. It's urgent people stop to polarise and to qualify everybody who thinks different as being retrograde, limited or whatsoever. SpaceX are working on this, but experience should have learned us that in case of doubt it is urgent to wait.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how...k-satellites-earth-effects-stars-2020-10?IR=T
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-sky-by-launching-42-000-satellites-g5g0l2mg6
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/science/spacex-starlink-astronomy.html
https://www.dia.mil/Portals/27/Documents/News/Military Power Publications/Space_Threat_V14_020119_sm.pdf read appendix A

Last post whatever be the return, I need to get to guitar playing !
The solution to that is computational astrophotography (which, BTW is already dominant, since it helps with atmospheric effects), and launching a successor of the Hubble telescope, not going back to the Stone Age. All the astronomy in the world can’t compare to the benefit of being able to communicate from anywhere in the world at gigabit speeds for $50/mo.
 
Back
Top Bottom