Sound man needed me to level way down - why?

JD_

JD_

Inspired
Hi Everyone,

I'm looking for help understanding leveling my patches in the AF3. I know this type of thing is discussed a lot, so apologies for any redundancy here. I play in a classic rock band, and have played a few corporate gigs lately with other groups. I always go direct to PA, and it seems like my signal is always very hot coming from the AF3.

Last night, I practiced with a worship band for the first time. I had dialed in a patch that was just a less gainy version of my normal JCM800 #34 patch with some reverb and delay, and it sounded good to my in my practice space directly to an EV ZLX-12P. I had leveled my patch using the meters on the Output block, where my hardest playing hovered around the spot where black meets red. I have since RTFM and will do it on the Amp block in the future.

When I set up last night and plugged in, I had my Out1 knob up about 3/4. I normally would start at about 50%, but the knob must have gotten bumped in transit on my soft SKB case. The sound guy tells me it's way too hot, so I turn down until I'm at about 10 o'clock on the knob. He says it's still too hot, so I go into the output block on the patch and start dialing the level control down. I started at -8 db on the level, and he kept asking me to turn down until I was at something like -35db. He was telling me he had to cut the 'gain' on his side to basically zero. At that point, my signal was workable, but he didn't seem to like the situation. My tone was fine, I thought, but I had to max myself out on my personal mix, and I couldn't hear myself that well once the whole band was playing in full swing.

I have had this happen with my own band's mixer, and with other PA's, so I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong. The guitar I used last night (have tried many across multiple gigs/mixers) was a Les Paul with a 498T in the bridge, and my input level is at about 80. In the I/O screen, I have the Output 1 Output Level at +4db. Couple of questions:

1. What am I doing wrong that my signal is so hot?
2. Do I need to set Out1 to the -10 setting?
3. Should the sound man be adding 'gain' to my signal? Will that affect tone?

Presets are attached if anyone wants to look at them. The 'normal level' is what I started with, and the 'low level' is what I ended up with.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for any advice.
 

Attachments

  • 34-Worship (low level).syx
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  • 34-Worship (normal level).syx
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Setting Out1 to -10 might help.

I've had this issue before, and I think it was because they were expecting either a mic level input or something similar. It was also in a church setting, and the back of the mixer wasn't accessible to see what was going on. Who knows.

Maybe your Axe-Fx signal was going into one of the mic level inputs on the desk? Ask if they can check that you are plugged into a line level input. If you know what mixer they are using then perhaps we could provide more concrete advice.

For the future, perhaps also consider running Out2 to the sound guy, and using Out1 for your own personal mix. That way you aren't affecting your own personal mix when catering to the whims of the sound guy.
 
I’ve never had any issues. Usually out 1 direct to foh and knob is at noon and set to +4. Both at churches and other venues. All were with highly experienced sound guys.
 
Chad Beattie said:
I’ve never had any issues. Usually out 1 direct to foh and knob is at noon and set to +4. Both at churches and other venues. All were with highly experienced sound guys.
Click to expand...


That’s the difference, guys manning the board who had a clue. All too often these days the “sound man” is the bar back, who “mixes” the band when he’s not restocking ice and changing kegs.
 
This same exact thing happened to me when I played a contest at the house of blues with my AF2. Sound man was freaking out on me telling me im way too loud, even though I told him in plugged direct. He just left it at mic level lol.
 
Thanks everyone. I should have known to tell him that and I wasn't very clear on the differences myself. Just did a little reading on it, and that makes perfect sense now. I'll find out what the mixer is and whether the inputs are switchable.

One follow up question though....since I have a line level signal going to the mixer, would the sound guy set the gain on my channel to zero, or is it expected that some gain would be required with a line level signal?
 
JD_ said:
Thanks everyone. I should have known to tell him that and I wasn't very clear on the differences myself. Just did a little reading on it, and that makes perfect sense now. I'll find out what the mixer is and whether the inputs are switchable.

One follow up question though....since I have a line level signal going to the mixer, would the sound guy set the gain on my channel to zero, or is it expected that some gain would be required with a line level signal?
Click to expand...

The easiest way is to tell him to set up your gain staging and EQ just like he would for a keyboard instead of a guitar. I don't know why sound guys decide to lower their IQ’s a decimal point to the left as soon as a guitar player goes direct, but it happens occasionally. No EQ and flat line-level gain to start, easy-peasy. I played a show in a little mountain town and the sound guy was a kid in his 20’s who looked like he had tried to have a joint-smoking contest with Snoop Dogg before the gig. My set up was just the Axe II direct, and I had a QSC K12 as my backline/stage volume. This is what our conversation was like:
”Uh, so do I like uh, mic the speaker?”
”Oh not necessary brother, that's just my monitor. All you need to do is just plug 2 XLR’s in to the back of the Axe, set the entire channel EQ and gain to flat like you would a keyboard, and we're ready to rock.”
”So uh, do I need a DI?”
”Nope, not needed, the signal comes out line-level so 2 XLR’S AND you're all set.”
”Oh, okay! So then uh, do I need to mic the speaker?”
I wish it would be an exaggeration to say this conversation went in a perpetual loop of epic stupidity for a full 5 minutes, but I have the therapy bills to prove it.
 
Last edited:
mikeransom said:
The easiest way is to tell him to set up your gain staging and EQ just like he would for a keyboard instead of a guitar. I don't know why sound guys decide to lower their IQ’s a decimal point to the left as soon as a guitar player goes direct, but it happens occasionally. No EQ and flat line-level gain to start, easy-peasy. I played a show in a little mountain town and the sound guy was a kid in his 20’s who looked like he had tried to have a joint-smoking contest with Snoop Dogg before the gig. My set up was just the Axe II direct, and I had a QSC K12 as my backline/stage volume. This is what our conversation was like:
”Uh, so do I like uh, mic the speaker?”
”Oh not necessary brother, that's just my monitor. All you need to do is just plug 2 XLR’s in to the back of the Axe, set the entire channel EQ and gain to flat like you would a keyboard, and we're ready to rock.”
”So uh, do I need a DI?”
”Nope, not needed, the signal comes out line-level so 2 XLR’S AND you're all set.”
”Oh, okay! So then uh, do I need to mic the speaker?”
I wish it would be an exaggeration to say this conversation went in a perpetual loop of epic stupidity for a full 5 minutes, but I have the therapy bills to prove it.
Click to expand...
Lol. not much difference between the 'found' guy and the 'sound' guy in these scenarios.
 
Possible solution for the "soundman using Mic level" inputs on the board.

On some boards, the XLR inputs are ONLY MIC level.
Turning the Mic inputs down to 1 or 2 is still too hot and overloads very easily.
An inline XLR M to XLR F Pad should do the trick.

Or, you could get an XLR to TRS converter jack and plug into the Line input if the board has only 1/4" Line inputs.
You could also just carry another XLR-TRS cable, but that just ads weight!
 
Or if he won't run it in at line level into the correct input, then he will need to D.i. it into the micpre. I have run into a couple of "sound" people that wouldn't run the line level input.

Cheers
Ant
 
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