Sophisticated thread about Globally turning off all Cabs in the FM3.

Xcdchdchjjf said:
Cool, I bypass the amp at some point (3:32) in the video (where you can see the screen), and you can hear the difference.

Im pretty sure if this (using the 5-6 amps now listed) sounded the same as recording direct to desk, then this wouldnt have been such a thread about how harsh it would sound) (and usually does).

BTW I have recorded a lot of DI guitar over the years.
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Everyone has their tonal nirvana, but there's an unnatural attack and high end here which does not sound like an amp IMHO, sounds closer to a direct recorded guitar tone (as in direct to desk and/or guitar>preamp>desk). I can hear some hard/harsh clipping when you stum hard, and in the higher gained cab on/off example that cab does sound pretty dark and I imagine a different IR would be ideal, but I'd take that over the the no cab sound (which it seems you alter your dynamics playing softer to try and stop the harshest tones). But if it works for you who cares what I think. And there's nothing particularly wrong with those sounds, especially in the right context, just not for me.
 
OrganicZed said:
I've got to say, I love the re-title on this thread. That is hilarious!
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I assume its possible to "blend" a cab into the signal... maybe with parallel. Honestly I don't even understand the "cab" reasoning anymore... I mean I do but there should be an easier option to not have it. Without yes, probably a large number of the amps, sounding harsh.
 
Xcdchdchjjf said:
I assume its possible to "blend" a cab into the signal... maybe with parallel. Honestly I don't even understand the "cab" reasoning anymore...
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I think the basic reasoning is because the cab influences the sound that so many people have in their head that perhaps they are chasing. Those cabs define what a guitar "should" sound like. Just my $.02, I do prefer cab vs. no cab.

I was never a huge fan of all the DI stuff in the past (granted there are some instances of really clean tones that are fine). I've never looked into why it came about, but after reading some accounts of how difficult it can be to get an amp mic'd in the studio for the desired sound, I can just imagine some audio engineer decided to push the "easy button". I think that difficulty in dealing with amps is why you're seeing people like Joe Satriani singing a different tune about modelers today.
 
fcs101 said:
I think the basic reasoning is because the cab influences the sound that so many people have in their head that perhaps they are chasing. Those cabs define what a guitar "should" sound like. Just my $.02, I do prefer cab vs. no cab.

I was never a huge fan of all the DI stuff in the past (granted there are some instances of really clean tones that are fine). I've never looked into why it came about, but after reading some accounts of how difficult it can be to get an amp mic'd in the studio for the desired sound, I can just imagine some audio engineer decided to push the "easy button". I think that difficulty in dealing with amps is why you're seeing people like Joe Satriani singing a different tune about modelers today.
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Yeah to me the pickup is a microphone, so when you DI you are hearing the most pure sound from your guitar. It is like hearing it through a microscope. Paired with a good interface (like an Apogee) the sound is incredible. I think Prince recorded DI... DI into something good into Studio Monitors, I think is the best. I dont think it just about an engineer pushing the easy button though I have seen engineers use "plugins" when they have the literal analog effect right in a drawer, but they were young engineers. I know Tchad Blake who is a great producer has been using Sansamp for years. He even used it on kick drums now, he dials in a Q then flips the phase an it gets some psychoacousitc sub bass sound, or it drops it an octave, somehting like that... its his technique. Ive been playing more with the FM3 and never prefer the cab, only to "dampen" the sound from being too brittle, which again begs the question why does it "have to be" so brittle without a cab? Maybe thats how every amp is without a cab. With my Fender tube amps, I use an extension cabinet to give them the fullest range of frequency possible, more like a studio monitor (or an FRFR). There is a same thing going on in the digital cinema world, where HDR, gives you "more colors" and a more mellow and larger "dynamic range." People are used to the REC709 crushed blacks and whites colorspace though, just like a "smaller and more harsh frequency range" of an amp. I bought my tube amp on a whim years ago when buying some expensive Strymons from Sweetwater, had them just throw in a Fender tube. It definitely sounds good, but its a pretty life changing thing to start using a tube amp (going from 20 years of studio monitors), and again then pusing them to be as full frequency and uncolored as they can be = Clean.


Edit: youre right it was probably some engineer trying to be easy

But also I thought it was something the beatles did...

I also thought plugging straight into the desk was a "recording secret for years."
 
Xcdchdchjjf said:
I think Prince recorded DI... DI into something good into Studio Monitors...But also I thought it was something the beatles did...

I also thought plugging straight into the desk was a "recording secret for years."
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Running direct was always a thing, back in the 50's often the session guitarist had no alternative and were told to plug into the mixer, never been a secret. Happened a ton in Motown as well due to trying to record as cheaply as possible in small studios. However, just to clarify...they were always going guitar>mixer. Sometimes you might hear some compression and even mild clipping due to pushing the levels to hit the tape hard. None of these guys were running into an amp and taking a DI out or using some type of load box to run their preamp into a mixer. And the Sansamp (if you are referring to the original pedal or any of their guitar products) has an analog filter to emulate a speaker cab's frequency response, but as a company they suggested using it on "everything" and people did with great results. Circling back, if you're looking for the direct to desk tones of yore, you'll probably get closest bypass both amp and cab blocks and just using a compressor block and a dist block with the Tape Distortion type. But of course there are no real rules of how to do things the "right" way.
 
It probably would be good to read up on the evolution of the electric guitar and a person named Lester William Polsfuss, AKA Les Paul. In the beginning there was sound. Then engineers who wanted to recreate a sound precisely either for reproduction or for amplification. The issue is always the environmental constrains on technological advancements and the unique way that human being perceive the world around them. Our senses act as a filter most of the time. Combine all this and more and it’s a very interesting evolution. There is however a rhyme and reason to it. Just need to to know all the history.

Prince was many things. One being a studio master. Much of his music is very layered. Some of those “direct” sounds by themselves are not so great. Layered and it’s a different story. He also was an innovator and used all these techniques sparingly most the time.

Mostly the issue you’re running up against is your style vs what became known and loved as a rather simple or inexpensive tube amplifier at its peak or slightly beyond combining the purposeful speaker design used with these amplifier. Which is a filtered heavy distorted signal. Rock Guitar.

Like your analogy with light and the visual realm; technology, the way humans perceive with their senses, and either technological limitations of the period or many times the cost to make such devices causes restrictions in immediate advancements. Plus the biggest thing…what people choose to like and their tastes. I’m not a big fan of the look of much of the super high tech display technology. Much of it, while being pristine, bright, colorful and shiny seems fake to me. Or just pushed too far. Lacks warmth. It’s getting better and we do become accustomed to it, but it’s not realistic. I still have an almost 20 year 1080p Plasma display that I love because it’s reproduction is natural and realistic. It’s a power hog and kicks off tons of heat, but it better in many ways. Everything doesn’t look like Disney Land. It always cracks me up how we have all this super high tech recording material and cameras and then turn around and use more technology (plugins) to make it old again. Most motion pictures have all sorts of treatment to give it a toned down look. Don’t get me wrong. It’s all very interesting and I love learning about all of it. It’s just we humans are a peculiar bunch, for sure.

Always do what makes your creative process work. Probably the original title of this thread is what threw it off. The reason for the new title. It is a bit more inviting.

https://www.les-paul.com/electric-guitar/
 

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I forgot to add the main thing that IMO was the enticing thing with clipped signals from tube amps and electric guitar was the added sustain. A pure plucked metal string is more percussive than harmonic in many ways. However the guitar like a piano (keyboard) is a perfect instrument. It can be a solo and/or self accompanying (harmony and bass) all at once. Or close to it based on the players expertise. The one thing it can lack is long sustain like a violin or horn/woodwind. Being able to transition from a sustaining instrument to a multiple note harmonic instrument all with a turn of a volume knob was/is almost ecstasy.
 
Coming back to this after accidently playing some distorted sounds thru a "totally flat" cab ir to studio monitors and really enjoying the bright sound (Commodores "Easy"ish solo tones via external OD pedal (Bad Monkey) + H+K tube head clean channel 4cM'd). After I realized I was playing cabless I set out to find the brightest ir I could which would replicate what I liked about the cabless tone but with some refinement - auditioned a bunch of irs but everything was too dark (closest I got was Jensen C12 with some EQ). Anyway, short story long, I found what I was looking for by settlng my cab back to the correct ir I normally use for the H+K (112 v30 57/121 3rd pty ir) and setting the Air parameter to 18% at 6500hz. Soo, if you kinda like cabless but don't want to go cabless, try adding some Air which afaik, lets a controlled amount of cabless signal thru at the frequency you desire.
 
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sprint said:
Coming back to this after accidently playing some distorted sounds thru a "totally flat" cab ir to studio monitors and really enjoying the bright sound (Commodores "Easy"ish solo tones via external dirt pedal (Bad Monkey) + H+K tube head clean channel 4cM'd). After I realized I was playing cabless I set out to find the brightest ir I could which would replicate what I liked about the cabless tone but with some refinement - auditioned a bunch of irs but everything was too dark (closest I got was Jensen C12 with some EQ). Anyway, short story long, I found what I was looking for by settlng my cab back to the correct ir I normally use for the H+K (112 v30 57/121 3rd pty ir) and setting the Air parameter to 18% at 6500hz. Soo, if you kinda like cabless but don't want to go cabless, try adding some Air which afaik, lets a controlled amount of cabless signal thru at the frequency you desire.
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There is no fun going CABless if you don't use a pumped Metal Zone :fuelpump:🔥
 
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