Sophisticated thread about Globally turning off all Cabs in the FM3.

[Piing]

The tone of a discussion is often set by the thread title. This title is like BOOOM+++!!, so the conversation is like KABOOOOOM+++++!!!!!

A less viral title, like "Clean tones sound amazing without CAB" would probably lead the conversation in a different way than Globally Turning Off the holy F'ing CABs

 

[Will Schut]

I had to try this myself, and truth be told, without a cab block doesn’t sound nearly as good as with a cab block, but some amps sound way less “angry wasps in a jar” then you would expect this way. In a setup with (active) studiomonitors that is…. Now is it something I would recommend in general…. Heck no.

 

[Will Schut]

You guys have pretty much picked this apart. I'm surprised no one mentioned that this has been a "thing" in the past though. For clean tones (as mentioned above) this was THE thing in the 80s.

As an old fart who was already paying bills doing studio jobs in the eighties, we even recorded leads this way to get a sort of pseudo synth sound. Check out the solo in the Edwyn Collins song “A Girl Like You” for instance. I had a Boss Guitar Driver 19 inch back then, went straight into the board and then shaped the sound using the board EQ. Did it sound good? No! Was it what was frequently requested? Yes! Do I sometimes miss the eighties? Triple Yes!!!

 

[Will Chen]

As an old fart who was already paying bills doing studio jobs in the eighties, we even recorded leads this way to get a sort of pseudo synth sound. Check out the solo in the Edwyn Collins song “A Girl Like You” for instance. I had a Boss Guitar Driver 19 inch back then, went straight into the board and then shaped the sound using the board EQ. Did it sound good? No! Was it what was frequently requested? Yes! Do I sometimes miss the eighties? Triple Yes!!!

Easy by the Commodores comes to mind. Such a great song and then like nails on a chalkboard that overdrive recorded direct solo.

 

[sprint]

Easy by the Commodores comes to mind. Such a great song and then like nails on a chalkboard that overdrive recorded direct solo.

wow! love that solo and always wondered how to get that sound - have futzed with fuzz pedals to go there but never even close - will have to try no cab as a possibility. Here's the solo cued up for those who may not know / remember it

 

[Xcdchdchjjf]

As an old fart who was already paying bills doing studio jobs in the eighties, we even recorded leads this way to get a sort of pseudo synth sound. Check out the solo in the Edwyn Collins song “A Girl Like You” for instance. I had a Boss Guitar Driver 19 inch back then, went straight into the board and then shaped the sound using the board EQ. Did it sound good? No! Was it what was frequently requested? Yes! Do I sometimes miss the eighties? Triple Yes!!!

I absolutely love that songs guitar sound.

But yes that tone is way stronger than I am talking about.

Personally my favorite sound is just a simple clean Hot Rod Deluxe, so very basic there.

Second favorite sound is DI into an Apogee (preamp) interface. (Then out Yamaha HS, or Neumann monitors).
No fake amp sound, etc.

Third favorite sound is the recent cabless FM3 (cleanish).

 

[Xcdchdchjjf]

The tone of a discussion is often set by the thread title. This title is like BOOOM+++!!, so the conversation is like KABOOOOOM+++++!!!!!

A less viral title, like "Clean tones sound amazing without CAB" would probably lead the conversation in a different way than Globally Turning Off the holy F'ing CABs

Hey I had just gotten home from my first FM3 gig, (where I used cabs!) but I also had a shot of whisky and an espresso.
I think the bottom line is I don't like boxy sounds, even this cabless can sometimes sound boxy.
As I wrote a few times, including in the OP, I too have always in the past experienced the nails on a chalkboard sound when you turn the cab off.

It works to me with the amps I listed, which happen to be consecutive numbers. I wrote them above.

Personally I use the Fm3 more as an FX Box than an amp sim, since the effects are practically godlike with the controls.
Plex verb could be anywhere from a $900-4000 pedal or "studio unit" I think.

 

[Xcdchdchjjf]

Note I used the MK amp (my favorite) and not the five or so I used the first post.
For the amps listed in the first post I didn't adjust anything.
In this video, it shows an example of cabless tone then shows a couple steps to get there.
I imagine had I used the originally listed amps, as in the first post, it would have needed no adjusting.

To me the sound with the cab on is like a blanket being put over an amp.

 

[State of Epicicity]

Note I used the MK amp (my favorite) and not the five or so I used the first post.
For the amps listed in the first post I didn't adjust anything.
In this video, it shows an example of cabless tone then shows a couple steps to get there.
I imagine had I used the originally listed amps, as in the first post, it would have needed no adjusting.

To me the sound with the cab on is like a blanket being put over an amp.

Beautiful tone. You know, you got me thinking: I wonder how you'd feel about using cabs, but applying aggressive EQ to get rid of boxiness, but still to impart the character of the cabinets. I cannot stand a lot of the way IRs translate with my current guitar, so I apply EQ usually in three places: in the Pre Power Amp section of the Amp Block, between the Amp and the Cab, and after the Cab. This is extreme, but the results to my ears are just The Best. You could absolutely demolish any boxiness with just a single EQ. Just a thought. I'm wondering if you're really mainly finding that the IRs you currently have just don't play well with your guitar.

 

[Xcdchdchjjf]

Beautiful tone. You know, you got me thinking: I wonder how you'd feel about using cabs, but applying aggressive EQ to get rid of boxiness, but still to impart the character of the cabinets. I cannot stand a lot of the way IRs translate with my current guitar, so I apply EQ usually in three places: in the Pre Power Amp section of the Amp Block, between the Amp and the Cab, and after the Cab. This is extreme, but the results to my ears are just The Best. You could absolutely demolish any boxiness with just a single EQ. Just a thought. I'm wondering if you're really mainly finding that the IRs you currently have just don't play well with your guitar.

Thank You. I'm sure what you are suggesting is probably perfect.

 

[State of Epicicity]

Thank You. I'm sure what you are suggesting is probably perfect.

It's a pain in the ass is what it is haha. It takes me way longer to get the tones right, but I just always find myself way happier afterward. I was thinking about this just last night, that I live in this 500 square foot apartment, so I can't play a tube amp, so the tone I'm always going for is a fantastic recorded tone. Those tones, from albums whose engineering I love, are always fucked with so much. It was watching Pensado's Place that made me realized just how very very much a lot of mixing engineers alter tracks, with EQ after EQ after compressor after another compressor, etc. Whatever it takes to get feel right for the music they're working on. And I thought: Well, what the Hell am I doing just thinking an IR, captured with someone else's mic placement, from a spot they thought was good with their guitar, their playing style, in their room, was going to be picture perfect for me right out of the gate? Why am I not doing what I know a lot of mixing engineers do to make guitars sound fantastic on a record? I know I can EQ no problem, and I have a million of them in the Axe-FX III, so why not just try it in the most ridiculous way? So I set up a basic preset that I liked, and I experimented adding one EQ, then another, then another, adding Smoothing and Proximity in the Cab Block, reducing the size of the IR, etc, until it just felt perfect. I just felt more nuance, power, and well, feel, from the tone that I had with just the IR alone, even though I loved the preset as it had been. But comparing them before and after? The heavily EQ'd version was a million times better in my mind.

But of course, again, there are no rules, and it doesn't matter if you just use this as your style, not to use an IR into FRFR. That's fine and totally cool and unique. For me cleans are still gainy, just in the highs and lows instead of the mids, giving the impression of clean with the actuality of gain, and the character of the cab is so integral to that. For the kind of cleans you go for, it may be a different thing altogether. Judging from what you posted, you certainly don't need anyone telling you how to set your tones. If they feel right, they are right.

 

[Johnny Two Tone]

It's funny to read this reaction to turning off the global cab setting on the FM3, especially with the added sentiment "It's like taking a blanket off of the speakers" because I said the exact same thing when I bought an Axe-FX Ultra years ago. I never used cabs with my Ultra.

The important factor, of course, is that I used a combo tube-amp with my Ultra - a Visual Sound Workhorse Pony, to be specific, which was a combo designed specifically to react well with effects.

Edit: I'd like to second the motion that EQ is vital to making 'okay' cabs sound great. I apply EQ to absolutely everything, not just Axe-FX related: I use system wide EQ on my PC audio devices, I setup individual EQs on my phone for each of my headphones, etc. EQ is the difference between trying to like what someone else designed and making something sound the way you actually like.

 

[sprint]

I'm somewhat surprised some quite pushed cleans to my ear, sound that good cab-less (as in the vid above ), but I'd still need a lot of convincing to believe anyone would consider cab-less for a preset with significant amounts of gain on it as the thread title / 1st post suggested to me might be a possibility when I first read those.

 

[Piing]

It's funny to read this reaction to turning off the global cab setting on the FM3, especially with the added sentiment "It's like taking a blanket off of the speakers" because I said the exact same thing when I bought an Axe-FX Ultra years ago. I never used cabs with my Ultra.

The important factor, of course, is that I used a combo tube-amp with my Ultra - a Visual Sound Workhorse Pony, to be specific, which was a combo designed specifically to react well with effects.

Edit: I'd like to second the motion that EQ is vital to making 'okay' cabs sound great. I apply EQ to absolutely everything, not just Axe-FX related: I use system wide EQ on my PC audio devices, I setup individual EQs on my phone for each of my headphones, etc. EQ is the difference between trying to like what someone else designed and making something sound the way you actually like.

That Visual Sound Workhorse Pony is a clean amp, but not FRFR; it is a tube combo with Celestion guitar speakers. It is indeed recommended to turn off the CAB when using guitar speakers. That is also noted at the Axe-FX User Manual.

 

[Xcdchdchjjf]

It's a pain in the ass is what it is haha. It takes me way longer to get the tones right, but I just always find myself way happier afterward. I was thinking about this just last night, that I live in this 500 square foot apartment, so I can't play a tube amp, so the tone I'm always going for is a fantastic recorded tone. Those tones, from albums whose engineering I love, are always fucked with so much. It was watching Pensado's Place that made me realized just how very very much a lot of mixing engineers alter tracks, with EQ after EQ after compressor after another compressor, etc. Whatever it takes to get feel right for the music they're working on. And I thought: Well, what the Hell am I doing just thinking an IR, captured with someone else's mic placement, from a spot they thought was good with their guitar, their playing style, in their room, was going to be picture perfect for me right out of the gate? Why am I not doing what I know a lot of mixing engineers do to make guitars sound fantastic on a record? I know I can EQ no problem, and I have a million of them in the Axe-FX III, so why not just try it in the most ridiculous way? So I set up a basic preset that I liked, and I experimented adding one EQ, then another, then another, adding Smoothing and Proximity in the Cab Block, reducing the size of the IR, etc, until it just felt perfect. I just felt more nuance, power, and well, feel, from the tone that I had with just the IR alone, even though I loved the preset as it had been. But comparing them before and after? The heavily EQ'd version was a million times better in my mind.

But of course, again, there are no rules, and it doesn't matter if you just use this as your style, not to use an IR into FRFR. That's fine and totally cool and unique. For me cleans are still gainy, just in the highs and lows instead of the mids, giving the impression of clean with the actuality of gain, and the character of the cab is so integral to that. For the kind of cleans you go for, it may be a different thing altogether. Judging from what you posted, you certainly don't need anyone telling you how to set your tones. If they feel right, they are right.

"Cleans are still gainy, just in the highs and lows" yes thats interesting.

I have worked (directly next to) Brendan Obrien and Rob Cavallo. One in a major studio, and the other in his home studio.
They ran everything including the air in the room through an Empirical (Fatso) Distressor. That was the recent thought of Fractal making a "Liquid Channel" style device, for studio use. Maybe with analog though this time.

 

[Xcdchdchjjf]

I'm somewhat surprised some quite pushed cleans to my ear, sound that good cab-less (as in the vid above ), but I'd still need a lot of convincing to believe anyone would consider cab-less for a preset with significant amounts of gain on it as the thread title / 1st post suggested to me might be a possibility when I first read those.

Yeah I gain it with the drive block, Tube4, FET pre, T808, Blues OD, PI Fuzz.

 

[State of Epicicity]

"Cleans are still gainy, just in the highs and lows" yes thats interesting.

That’s just me. I’m never inspired by actual clean clean with high headroom. I like the lows to kind of squish from too much saturation and the highs to be brilliant without shrillness, all without a compressor. I get there with the Archon Clean with Bright on, MV at 10. It just feels like hard hit chords “sink” into the amp and re-emerge; it’s beautiful.

 

[Will Chen]

Note I used the MK amp (my favorite) and not the five or so I used the first post.
For the amps listed in the first post I didn't adjust anything.
In this video, it shows an example of cabless tone then shows a couple steps to get there.
I imagine had I used the originally listed amps, as in the first post, it would have needed no adjusting.

To me the sound with the cab on is like a blanket being put over an amp.

Huh, to me that all sounds like a guitar recorded direct to desk.

 

[Xcdchdchjjf]

Huh, to me that all sounds like a guitar recorded direct to desk.

Cool, I bypass the amp at some point (3:32) in the video (where you can see the screen), and you can hear the difference.

Im pretty sure if this (using the 5-6 amps now listed) sounded the same as recording direct to desk, then this wouldnt have been such a thread about how harsh it would sound) (and usually does).

BTW I have recorded a lot of DI guitar over the years.

 

[bebaldwin]

I just turned off Globally all cab sims, while playing through a Yamaha HS.

HOLY F+++++++++++++!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


NOW I CAN HEAR THE FRACTAL


OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DID I PAY ONE MILLION DOLLARS FOR THIS????????


I MUST HAVE........................................................................................... OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I run my AxeFx III into combo amps and with some amp models it sounds much better without the cab sims but on some amps it is better with them. I try it both ways to see which ones I like better.