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So that's what you were calling fizz...

Manny Fufish

Experienced
I upgraded to V4 this morning and it sounds great! Love the new power section and being able to bring up the Master on my 'Marshally' tones. Thanks Cliff, you doth' rock!

I also found the Grid Modeling option and I read all the huff about this, so I flipped it 'off' and I heard what it removes. I have heard those same frequencies (at insane volume mind you) over the years when I really crank my tube amps, so I personally will leave that alone, but I grew up with that, and that's me... My son however listens to MP3's of bands that use modeled guitar tones, he grew up with that, and he thinks that sounds great, much better in fact, than my Tony Bruno amp when cranked... He says that modeling sounds more 'like the song' which is an MP3 of a modeled and processed guitar tone. Keep in mind now I really like the sound of cassette on a very nice system, and smile at the pops and clicks of my vinyl records that reminds me of when I was very young (I'm a child of the 70's and 80s born in 69'), and my son is 17... I have total respect for my son's taste and I can't tell him he's wrong because in fact he's not, he just likes what he likes, as do I... I do however strongly disagree when people call these frequencies a digital artifact, because that would mean my Bruno must have those same digital artifacts and I would have paid WAY too much money for it. I'd be happy to let those individuals put their ear to the speaker cab however as I dime that amp and let them check it out for themselves.

I end on an appreciation to Cliff who had the tenacity to implement this complex level of analog circuitry realism and the sympathetic indulgence to allow users to take it back out again.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
I prefer the "fizz" on probably because I grew up with it. I just like the extra grit. When you're playing in a group context that grit seems to make the guitar cut better and fills out the sound. Without it things sound sterile.

I spent months trying to capture that. One day one of my employees came by the lab while I was working on the new algorithms. I was trying to explain the grit to him that I heard in my JCM800. "Hear that sizzle on top of the notes? Hear that raspy, bacon frying sound? That's what modelers are missing."

So I spent months figuring out where that came from and how to replicate it.

All IMHO...
 

Funeral

Fractal Fanatic
So, I'm at work and only have axe-edit in front of me. My question is, is the “Grid Modeling” on by default or off?
 

Stratoblaster

Fractal Fanatic
I prefer the "fizz" on probably because I grew up with it. I just like the extra grit. When you're playing in a group context that grit seems to make the guitar cut better and fills out the sound. Without it things sound sterile.

I spent months trying to capture that. One day one of my employees came by the lab while I was working on the new algorithms. I was trying to explain the grit to him that I heard in my JCM800. "Hear that sizzle on top of the notes? Hear that raspy, bacon frying sound? That's what modelers are missing."

So I spent months figuring out where that came from and how to replicate it.

All IMHO...
I too prefer the 'fizz' since that extra grit/sizzle is what I've been hearing out of tube amps for decades (and I'm a long time JCM800 player), and am glad you took the time to go to great lengths to figure it out. Indeed it does help when playing with the band.

I tried turning off the Grid Conduction on my presets after I tuned them for 4.0 (took about 1/2 hour) and very much preferred the setting on with my amp selections, etc.
 

RichHowe

Inspired
I prefer the "fizz" on probably because I grew up with it. I just like the extra grit.
Me too! This fizz issue reminds me of the whole Dolby Noise Reduction thing. It seemed like that was the greatest thing since sliced bread when it came out but I hated it and always left it turned off. Sure it cut the tape hiss but also the high end and the fidelity of the recording. I'd much rather deal with the hiss or the fizz than sacrifice the original sound by eliminating it.
 

Manny Fufish

Experienced
Funeral said:
So, I'm at work and only have axe-edit in front of me. My question is, is the "Grid Modeling" on by default or off?
Grid modeling is turned on by default so it is as it has been.
 
I prefer the "fizz" on probably because I grew up with it. I just like the extra grit. When you're playing in a group context that grit seems to make the guitar cut better and fills out the sound. Without it things sound sterile.

I spent months trying to capture that. One day one of my employees came by the lab while I was working on the new algorithms. I was trying to explain the grit to him that I heard in my JCM800. "Hear that sizzle on top of the notes? Hear that raspy, bacon frying sound? That's what modelers are missing."

So I spent months figuring out where that came from and how to replicate it.

All IMHO...
That's one thing that I think tricks alot of inexperienced ears, there's fizz, and then there is Fizz,... old digital fizz from like the GT series sounds like digital clipping and is very static and cold, and you can hear all these holes in between the scratchy plastic, real Fizz like a Marshall is bubbly and boiling hot, like a fiery cauldron ready to pour forth molten harmonics.... digital fizz doesn't sound liquidy.... amps have liquidy fizz.....
 

wezx

Experienced
That's one thing that I think tricks alot of inexperienced ears, there's fizz, and then there is Fizz,... old digital fizz from like the GT series sounds like digital clipping and is very static and cold, and you can hear all these holes in between the scratchy plastic, real Fizz like a Marshall is bubbly and boiling hot, like a fiery cauldron ready to pour forth molten harmonics.... digital fizz doesn't sound liquidy.... amps have liquidy fizz.....
LOL...The words we have to use to come up with descriptions of sounds!
 

shotgunn

Fractal Fanatic
I tend to prefer a smoother more studio type 'processed' sound myself. That being said the 45 minutes or so I spent w/4.0 last night I seem to prefer Grid Modeling being On.


I'm a high gain djent djent meedley meedely meedely type player...

Sent from my iPod.
 

North

Inspired
I prefer the "fizz" on probably because I grew up with it. I just like the extra grit. When you're playing in a group context that grit seems to make the guitar cut better and fills out the sound. Without it things sound sterile.

I spent months trying to capture that. One day one of my employees came by the lab while I was working on the new algorithms. I was trying to explain the grit to him that I heard in my JCM800. "Hear that sizzle on top of the notes? Hear that raspy, bacon frying sound? That's what modelers are missing."

So I spent months figuring out where that came from and how to replicate it.

All IMHO...
Ahhh, god ... I grew up with a ca. 78 Fender Deluxe and I think this is what I´ve been missing. That hair, fur, fizz, fuzzy sound that that amp had when cracked with an "Ice Cube" (used reverb circuitry tubes to add gain) and I´ve been missing ever since. I can´t wait to try it out tomorrow.

Thank You so Much Cliff, this is truly exciting!

Dan
 

shotgunn

Fractal Fanatic
4.0 allows us to turn that 'sizzle' off. The 'sizzle' has been there I think since 3.0 or so.

Ahhh, god ... I grew up with a ca. 78 Fender Deluxe and I think this is what I´ve been missing. That hair, fur, fizz, fuzzy sound that that amp had when cracked with an "Ice Cube" (used reverb circuitry tubes to add gain) and I´ve been missing ever since. I can´t wait to try it out tomorrow.

Thank You so Much Cliff, this is truly exciting!

Dan
 

North

Inspired
Ahhh, god ... I grew up with a ca. 78 Fender Deluxe and I think this is what I´ve been missing. That hair, fur, fizz, fuzzy sound that that amp had when cracked with an "Ice Cube" (used reverb circuitry tubes to add gain) and I´ve been missing ever since. I can´t wait to try it out tomorrow.

Thank You so Much Cliff, this is truly exciting!

Dan

And it just struck me - and this while the competition is trying its best to get rid of fizz ... Fractal changes the came (again). Just glorious!
 

VegaBaby

Fractal Fanatic
I prefer the "fizz" on probably because I grew up with it. I just like the extra grit. When you're playing in a group context that grit seems to make the guitar cut better and fills out the sound. Without it things sound sterile.

I spent months trying to capture that. One day one of my employees came by the lab while I was working on the new algorithms. I was trying to explain the grit to him that I heard in my JCM800. "Hear that sizzle on top of the notes? Hear that raspy, bacon frying sound? That's what modelers are missing."

So I spent months figuring out where that came from and how to replicate it.

All IMHO...
love that "sizzle". I love effect-over-processed sounds, but the underlying amp has to be raw like sushi ;)
 

hyderipper

Experienced
Grid modeling is turned on by default so it is as it has been.
I'll have to check on the Axe itself, but in AE I noticed just the opposite which I thought was odd. Grid modeling off by default. And so far I also prefer it on. Haven't really noticed a big change either way though aside from, as dpeterson mentioned on the uber, it pulled a lot of low mids out of it when off. Still experimenting. The great thing for me is with every FW update the high gain tones get tighter and more open and musical sounding.
 
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