So many updates, so much tech details.. now i just cannot PLAY!

OP here :) after all the talk, i wanted to make an update..

well the post was a week ago, last sunday.
a result of approaching the start of the new week, i was a bit stressed.
that's because weekends are the most appropriate days to do serious stuff about music.. like today..
thanks to all you posters here, i've changed a bit. the most remarkable kind of reply was "plug, play and enjoy"..
but before doing that i had to first upgrade the latest (18.07) then roll back to 17.04.
with these steps, i found that i really doesn't matter at all..
the difference between 17 and 18 is actually very little..
so the final decision was to stick with the latest FW so i can benefit all latest developments from FAS..

still as a conclusion i can say no matter which FW you use it's more or less the same quality, just play and enjoy. it's not worth the stress. like most of you said, this is the best thing you can buy as a guitarist so why the stress.. just enjoy.. i'm doing that now..

thanks all.
 
To answer for the OP:

I see you are a old school guy, who wants his gear to be simple. Right? Stay that way. Don't go in that rabbid hole and try to tweak all the advanced parameters etc.

Axe fx II can be easy. It's just even easier to get lost with this unit, 'cause it offers so many options, amps, effects, routings etc. For old school guy you just need to think simple.

Choose the Amp and Cab, that suits together (JCM800 + TV mix Cab for example). Play and listen the tone. Set the gain for your liking and finetune the B/T/M /P settings in the Amp block. Think, that it is the only view you have. Just like in the real amp. You have your basic tone dialed in now!

After that you just add the effecs, you'll need and do the same thing with them. Trust your ears and keep it simple. (If the tone is too bassy... You know what knob to adjust. If the chorus is too wet... You know! Easy!)
 
I see this thread's title and all it does is to reminds me of someone who says "I am so tired of all the sex and violence I keep recording and watching on my VCR". Takes some ownership, dude, sell your Axe Fx or stop updating. LOL!
 
I have many per song presets and they are all tweaked in depth. When one thing changes (like the amp block) it also changes how everything else was tweaked to work with it, especially if you play dynamically and rely on that. It's disappointing how people that don't tweak have a hard time grasping this, then throw out comments like don't update or sell you gear.... cause ya, that's helpful... /not.

@ ozanerkal

I used to spend a lot of time on the forums, and got caught up in the hype whenever a new FW came out, I mean Cliff could just change the number on the firmware, not actually change anything, and you'd have 200 posts saying it's the greatest and bestest sounding FW ever... it's pretty ridiculous actually... haha. I've been here since FW 10 and I realized though, after recording my presets prior to updating and using that to retweak and then comparing to the new versions, it pretty much ends up sounding the same and so unless there is something new in the latest FW that I am actually going to use, I just skip it, and try my hardest to ignore the forums.

Unfortunately, there is no way around it, but.... the greatest thing about the Axe FX in my opinion is that you can back up all your presets and easily jump between versions. So I can work on rebuilding with the latest FW, and then when I have a gig, if I am not ready with the latest, I simply backup my current work and revert to the older FW and reload my backups. It is starting to take a little longer as Axe Edit pretty much needs the accompanying version these days, and then your block library gets errors, but at least it's an option and one I've been using since FW 14.
 
It will likely be some time before a major update comes that requires a significant amount of tweaking, given the recent change to G3 modeling.
Incremental firmware releases have also been progressively easier to tweak, IMO.
 
Severed said:
the greatest thing about the Axe FX in my opinion is that you can back up all your presets and easily jump between versions. So I can work on rebuilding with the latest FW, and then when I have a gig, if I am not ready with the latest, I simply backup my current work and revert to the older FW and reload my backups.
Click to expand...
Useful tip, thanks...
 
ozanerkal said:
having paid lots of money on this tool, i want to get the most out of it. so i follow the upgrades. so far, 17.04 was (tho i dunno exactly why) the best. but when the creator of the best guitar related device ever says "here is a better version" who am i to argue..
Click to expand...
I think that this is where your reasoning might be leading you astray. If you have better things to do with your music time than deal with upgrades then wait 'til later. IME, it's really that simple. If there's a new feature that gets you jazzed, then go ahead and update. If you have some free time and feel the urge, go ahead and update. Otherwise, a certain Frank Zappa title comes to mind. ;) Make sure you own the gear and not vice versa.
 
To the OP:
I think the Axe is wasted in your hands!
No flame here... just an observation!
There is no "easy way" in the tone search!
Even if you are just "guitar amp and pedals"... you need days and days to master your gear... find the "sweet spots" of each items... and finally carve out YOUR PERSONAL tone!
And not to mention .. cab swap... speackers swap... tubes swap... amp mods... mics swap and positioning... preamp settings...
Tones is all about COLORS and the Axe is the biggest all-in-one-box color palette... and even a little change in the fw... is a big change in the number of colors you can get!
Last word about the firmwares: what many ppl here love about the Axe... and about Cliff and FAS ... is that the Axe is all but an "out of the shelf" box! Axe is a project on the go... is growing... and we are growing with it with the help of Cliff and sharing tips and hints in this forum.
If "plug'n play DI to the Foh" with no or just a little bit of tweack is your goal... if you can't hear the difference between twe firmware upgrade... if you can't see the colors... maybe you can't hear the difference from a 300$ Line6 crap... and the Axe!
 
Yeah!
Many of us are good to go with, say 10 Amps and using the factory IR's. I mean, you will get amazing tones this way and you'll be playing more guitar, instead of chasing that perfect IR etc.
 
ozanerkal said:
OP here :) after all the talk, i wanted to make an update..

well the post was a week ago, last sunday.
a result of approaching the start of the new week, i was a bit stressed.
that's because weekends are the most appropriate days to do serious stuff about music.. like today..
thanks to all you posters here, i've changed a bit. the most remarkable kind of reply was "plug, play and enjoy"..
but before doing that i had to first upgrade the latest (18.07) then roll back to 17.04.
with these steps, i found that i really doesn't matter at all..
the difference between 17 and 18 is actually very little..
so the final decision was to stick with the latest FW so i can benefit all latest developments from FAS..

still as a conclusion i can say no matter which FW you use it's more or less the same quality, just play and enjoy. it's not worth the stress. like most of you said, this is the best thing you can buy as a guitarist so why the stress.. just enjoy.. i'm doing that now..

thanks all.
Click to expand...

Glad you got back to us and are looking at things differently. I think one of the biggest things here (in my opinion) is sometimes we lose something that quite a few of us enjoy in and update and get something else that may not be for everyone. For example, I too am back to 17.04 after trying 18.07 and just not being happy. I may even go back to 18.03 where I had good results, but I play through 17.04 and feel there is nothing in my tones that needs to be changed. We lost that vintage pre-amp sound...whether it's mind over matter or what have you, I notice the difference in my recordings and through my amp and even made a test project so I could really hear the differences. Something is missing for me and my tones sound more synthetic and sort of transistor. My pinch harms don't have the same "holy hell, how are you doing that?" timbre and it's just not doing anything for me. I can't put my finger on what I'm not digging, but low and behold....back to 17.04 and I love my tone again in all aspects.

So for you, you may be like me. When you feel you have something that sounds incredible, stick with it and enjoy what you have. Reading you and everyone else in this thread, I am going to do the same. One thing that sort of sucks is....I look forward to the updates and new things to try. I almost wish Cliff could come up with some sort of universal way to include updates for those of us who may be totally happy with whatever FW we are using. Some really awesome things are in the works that we that may be content with our tone may not be able to enjoy. But there comes a time where you have to say "what's more important, the tone that sounds good to me, or the tone that doesn't that has a bunch of new options?" What's more important, the additional options or a tone that makes you thank God you were fortunate enough to create a slamming tone? :)

You're right though, the FW tones are close. Even when I recorded stuff and compared I could hear the similarities but REALLY heard what wasn't there that once was....at least for me. That's not a cut....just an observation. It makes me wish I worked for the company as a beta tester or something just so I can show them "but guys....though THIS is great, we lost THIS in the process".
 
Danny, I'm back on 17.04 also. It just sounds and feels better to me, a bit more alive, more precise...I don't know exactly. Will stay on it for a while. My presets are all dialled in exactly how I like them....
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
so strange. all the words you guys use to describe going back to 17.04 - alive, precise, better, fuller - are exactly how i describe moving up to 18+.

just one of those things i guess.
Click to expand...

I just wonder if some users enjoy a less refined fatter fuller softer more scooped sound when jamming solo at home? I've a mate with a few high end heads & a 4x12 (in his house!). He dials up the blobbiest (hardly a word is it?!) thickest, softest, most scooped tones possible for himself - no matter which head he's using - and loves playing through this type of sound on his own at home. Whenever he plugs into any of my gigging amps he is horrified by the transparency and bite I've got dialled in to cut through in band mixes - and so I wonder if FW18x / G3 (way better live IMO) is starting to deliver the bite that some home users - like my mate - may dislike? This is just a recent half baked random pondering of mine, based on zero science, so disregard at leisure!
 
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Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
so strange. all the words you guys use to describe going back to 17.04 - alive, precise, better, fuller - are exactly how i describe moving up to 18+.

just one of those things i guess.
Click to expand...

I'm actually trying harder to figure it out, Chris. I'm not one that likes to mention something without backing it up. If I'm ever negative, I'll always list the things that make me feel that way...whether they matter or not. :) For example, you are correct. 18.07 IS fuller. It's more open sounding and I would even go as far as saying the sound size seems to have increased. Almost like that Angus Young sort of open-ness That said, bigger isn't always better...especially if you're me and hung like a horse.............FLY! ;)

But seriously....where we gained some size, we lost something else in what I believe may be the pre-amp section. Like the break-up isn't happening nor is the tone resonating the same. I find it harder to do legato on 18+ and find that I struggle with pinch harmonics. They are pretty important in my style and when I can't grab them consistently, 9 times out of 10 it has something to do with the sound because I honestly do have the technique down. :) I know it's a technique more than a sound, but anyone that is really into amps and shred guitar, knows the amp can really help here. My pinch harms in 17.04 are off the hook and sound like the tube amps I have here. I can hit them in the same position on 18+ and they just sound like me doing them through a Rocktron Chameleon or something transistor.

I mentioned legato....17.04 makes things effortless like a saturated tube pre. I don't get the same feel, expressiveness or sustain now that I've looked into it deeper. I don't know if it has anything to do with the change in the Vintage/Modern that we had...or that my ears are playing tricks on me. But in a test recording using my 17.04 live and studio sounds vs. the 18.07 live/studio sounds, it sounds like I'm no longer using 12ax7's or something. I've tried messing around with the settings but can't seem to capture what I lost.

I also had another user message me recently that mentioned something missing out of his amp of choice where no matter what he does, it just doesn't give him that same sound. Please don't take this as whining or crying. I just wanted to explain what *I* hear as different in this. I realize I'm just one guy and my opinion is just a grain of salt. But I did a gig Saturday using 18.4 I think....I noticed something just didn't sound the same. I thought I had it all sorted, but something seemed off and even my soundman asked me what I did differently to my tone. I never told him I updated my Axe....so he heard *something* as well.

What that something is....I wish I could pinpoint. I don't doubt 18xx is the better choice for the majority and I'll probably mess around with it some more. But as of now, we lost something in the amps that I use that *I* personally don't know how to get back without 3-4 days worth of tweaking. None of the usual tweaks or tweaks that have been discussed helped to change anything. So I guess you're right man....it's just one of those things.
 
Less master volume should help tighten things up in general. I've had to turn way down on some amps - used to run at 4 or 5, now (or at least sometime recently) I run them at 2 or close to 1. That puts the distortion quality more on the preamp, which should be tighter and less "bloomy" and not as open... Kinda.

Did you try extremely low MV settings or reducing the MV trim (which is a similar if not same thing)?

I really think it's something we can set, not some mystical creature only in FW17 :) let's find it.
 
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