So many updates, so much tech details.. now i just cannot PLAY!

ozanerkal

ozanerkal

Inspired
well i guess the title says it all and i guess i know what you'll say: "roll back to your best fw and stay there".. yeah maybe i'll do that at the end, but not before i file my complaints..

like most afx'ers here, i'm over 40, have a full-time job other than music, but record and play live music occasionally with my band.

so we can say i'm from the generation of guys who like to buy something and simply use it as it is.. e.g. an analog pedal or an amp stays the same until it dies..

since the purchase of afx, so much has changed for me.. in positive ways, if i'm satisfied with a tone i make, i can record it at home, i can put it to FOH.. something i never could have done.. and if i can spend the necessary time, i can make the tone that satisfies.. so far so good right?

but having paid lots of money on this tool, i want to get the most out of it. so i follow the upgrades. so far, 17.04 was (tho i dunno exactly why) the best. but when the creator of the best guitar related device ever says "here is a better version" who am i to argue..

i dl the fw, i dl the new presets, and expect better..

now i'm not saying it's not better, but it seems like it's not better unless you read through all complaints, all kinds of replies, all kinds of general knowledge on THE FORUM, THE WIKI, and the TUTORIAL..

now i finally accept that that's not possible. i find myself struggling with my afx in all the time left from my fulltime job. and no time left to play and enjoy.. it's got more and more complex by the day.. and i'm stuck at a point asking "should i accept 18.04 or go back to 17.04?" but can't do either because i'm so tired.

accepting 18.04 requires more and more learning/tweaking/researching and i will always think "what if all these go to vain with 18.05"..
rolling back to 17.04 which i really want by the way has its own problems: "am i stepping back from what could be the ultimate tone", "will it be as good as it used to be, will i be able to get rid of all the latest changes?"

well such a long thread and thank you all for reading until here.. please don't try to reply in terms of "do this/that and you're good..".. i guess this was rather a letter of statement.. what it says is: I'm stuck at a point where i cannot play, cannot work on my tone, cannot decide what next step to take and i'm losing my enthusiasm"

is anyone else feeling the same?
 
Just becuase a bunch of posters here drool or hag on Cliff"s every last word doesn't mean you have to. Having been a roadie/guitar tech for four years back in the late 80s, I am confident Axe endorsers are not updating nearly as often as the army of bedroom players represented in the forum. They just can't, they are on the move and seek a low risk position.

I know Cliff always says the newest is the most realistic to date and you should update "unless you don't like realism". Maybe it's the most realistic in a vacuum, but we all know that the end result guitar tone is the result of hundreds of factors not just G3. Cliff has to always promote the unit, to sell new ones to those not yet convinced to step over to the modeler universe. In a blind test, most Axe owners couldn't pick a G3 versus a G2 tone, they just convince themselves THIS NEWEST SOFTWARE IS THE BESTIEST, whether that's version 5, 11 or 18.04.

I updated my one Axe to 18.04 to hear the rotary. It's is an improvement so I am now reworking my presets to sound and behave as they use to, because my reality is I was happy with the amps prior to G3. I don't see myself updating again for a long time, if ever. It's good enough, the endless chasing of the next .0003% more realism eats up too much time when you have work, family and band commitments IMO. And if you're one of those that can update without any tweaks, good for you, I'm not.
 
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I understand what you are saying. But face it; the Axe is a tweak machine. You have to spend a lot time on creating your own presets. That's part of the deal so to say. If you don't like tweaking you have to stick with pedals and real amps. I love the tweaking and experimenting with effect settings. But what I don't like is the constant re tweaking (after updating) of presets that you have spend many hours on and sounded perfect with the previous FW version. That's the downside of the updates.

I quote myself from a post from a few days ago in another topic. Belongs better in this topic :):

Bodde said:
There are three 'problems' with using older FW I think:
1) you don't have the effect updates. I don't care too much for amp updates/new amps but more for effect updates/new effect stuff.
2) you can not load presets from other users that use a newer FW than you. Most of the time they don't load.
3) with each newer update you have to tweak more if you skip some updates. So after skipping some updates your presets sounds can totally change and that means spending valuable time on getting your presets back to life again.

This is something that I struggle with. I like the effect updates but I don't like wasting time on re tweaking my old presets every time. It's too time consuming when you have many presets like I do. But that is inherent to having updates.
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Nobody get's forced to upgrade and the majority of the posts in the forum (including me) are more than happy with the new firmware - also many have said, that now dialing in good tone is alot easier and factory presets sound now aswell very good. So if you're happy with your sound in 17.04 just stay there - if you want still all the new improvements in the Axe - that's the price you have to pay, spending some time tweaking your sounds. It's still better than have to buy with every upgrade a new Axe FX - my 2 cents...
 
The upgrades in the modeling strive toward realism of reproducing the sound of a real world counter part. The Axe Fx has evolved with that as a goal and is by far the best at this.
So does that mean it always sounds better? No, (always subjective) but I for one love the improvements in accuracy and realism.

A lot also depends on your mindset when upgrading. If you expect your Axe to be an enhanced version of what it already is, or do you expect it to sound more like an tube amp? Shouldn't we be using a tube amp as reference for what we hear rather than previous firmware? Tone controls, gain and ir are all that are necessary to get a great sound. No need to go deeper IMO
 
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I know you did not ask for do this do that but let me ask because when I loaded the new fw I was not happy it sounded shrill and not pleasant. I was going to go back to 17 also but even though cliff stated amps did not need reset I reset all amps and paramiters and after that all my presets sounded good with out any adjusting, the factory presets seemed to sound better also. so have you tried to reset? I am sorry that it is not working for you though I know it is frustrating! but it really only takes a couple minutes to revert back! good luck!
 
Bodde said:
I understand what you are saying. But face it; the Axe is a tweak machine. You have to spend a lot time on creating your own presets. That's part of the deal so to say. If you don't like tweaking you have to stick with pedals and real amps. I love the tweaking and experimenting with effect settings. But what I don't like is the constant re tweaking (after updating) of presets that you have spend many hours on and sounded perfect with the previous FW version. That's the downside of the updates.
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I absolutely disagree with this. I am much like the OP, but don't play in band. I don't have to tweak anything more than I would on a "real" amp and that is only *sometimes*. I've upgraded to every new FW since 18 months ago when I got the unit and have been nothing but thrilled with the outcome every single time. Don't get me wrong, once in awhile I get the urge to get *that* sound and tweak a bunch, but only if I feel the want...not the NEED.

I've posted many times that the Axe Fx II is as difficult and complicated as you make it. For the wealth of possibilities available (or not) it is the greatest piece of guitar related hardware I've ever seen/heard.
 
Wow, in my experience he's made it easier to use with each fw upgrade. If you don't feel comfortable with a product that is constantly evolving for the better maybe it's not the piece of gear for you. Like a lot of people say, The Axe FX isn't for everyone.When you realize that Cliff and his team never sleep and release all these updates for free trying to get the unit closer to a real amp, That kind of customer/product support alone is worth the cost. Stick at it,get off the forum and go play:encouragement:
 
Well I understand what you mean. I recently updated all amps and shit.. too different. I have a tour coming soon and thinking about going back because i have some music to play, i dont wanna be toying all day long finding the right sounds AGAIN.. it took enough time as it is.

Im wondering if i can go back to my previous FW then go up again but not update the amps. So i can have effects and bug fixes but my previous amps settings intact.
Will try but again, this is time consuming, all time i could be creative. We are a little bit like slaves to this machine.. :)
 
I think people forget that when they bought a new amp, got a new cabinet, or hooked up some new pedals, that it also required tweaks to your tone.

I suppose the only difference was that you might need to only tweak one amp after you hooked up a new cabinet to dial in your tone. Now with the Axe, some people might have 50 amps they use (I personally just use a couple even with 200+ options) so if you do have to tweak 50 amps, that is a fair bit of time required....

Luckily, the unit does not auto update and if one has a whole bank of lovingly crafted tones, stick with them, especially if your happy with what you've got.
 
Phil emptiness.be said:
Well I understand what you mean. I recently updated all amps and shit.. too different. I have a tour coming soon and thinking about going back because i have some music to play, i dont wanna be toying all day long finding the right sounds AGAIN.. it took enough time as it is.

Im wondering if i can go back to my previous FW then go up again but not update the amps. So i can have effects and bug fixes but my previous amps settings intact.
Will try but again, this is time consuming, all time i could be creative. We are a little bit like slaves to this machine.. :)
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You can not as the underlying modeling is different.

Is time spent creating tones any less creative than time spent playing though ? I personally enjoy both aspects of guitar. The technical side and the artistic side.

I've enjoyed building my own guitars, afternoons spent swapping pickups or speakers, just laying out a big array of pedals on the floor and chaining them together etc. I think its "fun", just as I think messing with the Axe, coming up with different routings and tones is fun.

If the Axe was simply "plug in play" I doubt I would of bought one.
 
i finally accept that that's not possible. i find myself struggling with my afx in all the time left from my fulltime job. and no time left to play and enjoy.. it's got more and more complex by the day.. and i'm stuck at a point asking "should i accept 18.04 or go back to 17.04?" but can't do either because i'm so tired.
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Im sorry but in my opinion playing with more options than you can keep up with isn't your problem. Stress is. See a doctor. Im not trying to be mean here, just trying to help. Please keep it in mind. Hope you get better.
 
luke said:
Just becuase a bunch of posters here drool or hag on Cliff"s every last word doesn't mean you have to. Having been a roadie/guitar tech for four years back in the late 80s, I am confident Axe endorsers are not updating nearly as often as the army of bedroom players represented in the forum. They just can't, they are on the move and seek a low risk position.

I know Cliff always says the newest is the most realistic to date and you should update "unless you don't like realism". Maybe it's the most realistic in a vacuum, but we all know that the end result guitar tone is the result of hundreds of factors not just G3. Cliff has to always promote the unit, to sell new ones to those not yet convinced to step over to the modeler universe. In a blind test, most Axe owners couldn't pick a G3 versus a G2 tone, they just convince themselves THIS NEWEST SOFTWARE IS THE BESTIEST, whether that's version 5, 11 or 18.04.

I updated my one Axe to 18.04 to hear the rotary. It's is an improvement so I am now reworking my presets to sound and behave as they use to, because my reality is I was happy with the amps prior to G3. I don't see myself updating again for a long time, if ever. It's good enough, the endless chasing of the next .0003% more realism eats up too much time when you have work, family and band commitments IMO. And if you're one of those that can update without any tweaks, good for you, I'm not.
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Great post.

Side note - I've actually rolled back to 17.04. Going to stay on that, as overall it just sounds and feels better to me.
 
Bodde said:
I understand what you are saying. But face it; the Axe is a tweak machine. You have to spend a lot time on creating your own presets. That's part of the deal so to say. If you don't like tweaking you have to stick with pedals and real amps. I love the tweaking and experimenting with effect settings. But what I don't like is the constant re tweaking (after updating) of presets that you have spend many hours on and sounded perfect with the previous FW version. That's the downside of the updates.

I quote myself from a post from a few days ago in another topic. Belongs better in this topic :):
Click to expand...

Yep. Almost every FW update I've done involved some tweaking after, whether it be major or minor tweaks.

It depends what types of presets you use. Obviously the more you have, the more work it is.
 
wcfieldskx said:
Great post.

Side note - I've actually rolled back to 17.04. Going to stay on that, as overall it just sounds and feels better to me.
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Realism, a great goal in itself, is not, and should not, always be equated with the "best" tone.

Sometimes that extra step towards the most realistic model of a given amp, while technically impressive, only introduces aspects that could be thought of as undesirable in the tone to some ears.

I've got a buddy who believe it or not, is still using FW9, yes NINE, simply because he thinks it sounds best. I know he tried 10 and maybe 14 and just didn't seem to like the changes. He likes those slightly synthetic idealized models in FW9 vs the more realistic tones in later FW

He plays more of a "djent" style metal though and certainly has a different taste than I do. For me, playing a strat, the feel and dynamics of 18 with a model like the Vibrato Lux is unmatched. He has zero interest in that though and instead loves stuff like the Bulb presets, which are tones I never use.

Nice thing about the Axe though is that we can both be quite happy, provided we know what we want, and when to upgrade, and when to stick with what works
 
This is exactly why I still have my tube amps, sometimes you just need to play and forget about the tweaking. If you have a real amp that you're familiar with, you've finished the tweaking long ago. It's more psychological than anything, if you know you have the power, you are drawn to use it. Plus, real amps satisfy that amp/cab in the room feel that seems to be another "need" for some. As great as my Axe Fx is, my real amps do not sit collecting dust.
 
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lessthanone said:
Wow, in my experience he's made it easier to use with each fw upgrade.
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This is how I feel.

I do need to tweak tones after an update, but tweaking time seems to be less and less each firmware update, and after tweaking, my patches sound better than they did before.

Back when I used line 6 gear, I shuddered to think of starting a patch from scratch, just because of sheer amount of fiddling, and eq work it took to make a tone sound acceptable, much less sound good. Thats not really a thing with the Axe FX though.
 
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