So are the Red Wirez cabz that much better than stock cabs

Getting into the outer reaches of....


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I've been playing with the Red Wirez for a few days now.
I started with the V30 R121 since I use that one in ly NewRecto patches.
I tried from 0 to 4 inches and centre cap to cap edge. The rest started to sound to dark for me.
The 3 inch sounded the best but when I did an A/B test with my old presets, I found there was something not quite right.
I waited a few hours before auditioning my presets again so i could start with "fresh ears".

The ones I tried sounded (faintly) like the sound was coming through a pipe.
In the end I went back to the AXE-fx IR.

I'll give it another try later on.
 
I bought the Big Box bundle last night and spent all day going through a lot of them. Talk about choices! :lol

I have programmed them into my presets. I use a Mackie SRM450 to tweak but i use Shure SCL5 (PSM700 System) In ears for live monitoring and i generally find whatever i do in the Mackies really shines in the SCL5s.

So i have a pretty big show tonight and i am playing the AFL Grand Final after party tomorrow night (Australian Football League, kinda the Aussie equivalent to the SuperBowl) so i should get a good chance to give these IRs a run.

Overall though, i am pretty impressed with how they sounded during my programming. Can't wait 'til tonight, leaving in about 5 minutes!!!

T
 
Well, i had a good couple of gigs with the Red Wirez and all in all it was a good experience. My main heavy sounded much more organic (for want of a better description) and my main clean was... well, nice and clean :lol: My only problem was my overdriven Plexi preset which i believe sounded better before but i'm sure it's just a matter of experimenting with some different I.Rs.

I would definitely say the Big Box was a very worthwhile purchase, and aside from how great they sound, just the choice alone opens up SO many new possibilities.

T
 
Scott Peterson said:
If you have ever heard your amp/cab recorded, you lean very quickly that what you hear from the cab standing 4' away or so is NOT what the mic is sending to FOH or the recording desk.
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Completely agreed, and it should have everything to do with how you tweak your sound. Sure, you would want your amp to sound awesome onstage so you can be inspired, and cut through the stage sound so you can hear yourself. However, it's equally (if not more so) important to tweak so you have a quality sound through the mic (or direct out, in this case), since that'll be what the audience will be hearing.

Of course, at the end of the day it's still up to the soundman go properly mix you in at the board, and chances are that you'll still sound slightly different out of the PA from night to night due to all the different variable involved like venues, setup of the PA, skill of the soundman, and etc..but sending a consistent, quality signal to the board will make the soundman's job that much easier, and will ultimately increase the chance of a good overall mix at the end. :)
 
I've just spent a day with the Big Box IR's. I'm pretty much knocked out!
They just make my Ultra come alive. I can so plainly hear the tone of my guitar come through the patches that I'm just amazed.

All the little things I was trying in order to make my ears happy are nearly unnecessary now. I've dropped all my heavy handed EQ's from my patches. Subtle EQ works very well now, if I need any at all.

It feels like I'm in a very good studio with a great mic cabinet. All the miking techniques sound just the way I learned them at Berklee. It's just amazing to audition dozens of mics, distances and locations in a matter of a few seconds!

I haven't got the IR Mixer running yet. I'm a Mac guy and I haven't spent time getting it to run yet. I can't wait to start mixing some multiple IR's.
 
Jay Mitchell said:
Did you shorten the wav version to 1024 samples before using it? If not it will sound different from the syx version, and you are not comparing apples to apples.
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I'm not sure if turning the length down in keFIR is the same as reducing it to 1024 samples, but I tried that.

As apple to apple as I knew how to get it...

keFIR at .01 secs (as low as it will go), loaded 1960A-G12Ms-SM57-Cap-1in.wav, cab sims off in AxeFX, into Cakewalk.

Same sysex loaded into AxeFX with no mic sims.

I got the same results as suggested by others in this thread (darker, blankety, etc, etc). The IR sounds brighter, less muffled, and more importantly, more natural and organic than its sysex counterpart.

For kicks I setup as similar I could with AxeFX's default cab. The stock AxeFX cab and Redwire are different, but similar when compared to the wavs themselves. I personally prefer the Redwirez over the stock cab, but I see where preferences of the two would be a matter of taste or opinion. HOWEVER, between the sysex and the wav counterpart....I would have a hard time with anyone choosing the sysex version over the wav.

Is turning the length of the keFIR plugin down equivalent to shortening the wav version to 1024 samples? If so, what is the difference between the wav and sysex of the same IR? I don't know anything about convolution plugins or whatever methods the AxeFX uses to simulate cabs. I'm really kind of stuck on either something in the conversion process isn't carrying over to the sysex or the AxeFX's methods of interpretation doesn't translate the sysex same way a convolution plugin does the wav.

What are your thoughts on this?

Yeah, I might be able to choose different IRs, or eq or otherwise tweak them to more inline with what I hear from the convolution plugin, but it would be cool for the user cabs in the AxeFX to replicate the wav counterparts. I also believe it to be a worthwhile endeavor for both Fractal and RedWirez, because I believe the solution would be profitable to both of them. ;)
 
I don't know what keFIR does under the hood (and I am not Jay Mitchell), so I can't tell you for sure if shortening the length is the same as truncating the file.

I recently uploaded a version of the IR library that's been truncated to 1024 samples, however. You can get it by checking your original download page or the update link I sent out a while back. This will give you a more apples to apples comparison and your results may differ.

keFIR is not the most accurate of the convolution plugs out there. SIR2 and Reverberate are the most accurate that I've used in the low latency camp, but they aren't free. If you're just previewing you can always use a plug-in like Perfect Space, Pristine Space, Space Designer, Altiverb, etc. that were intended for longer IRs of acoustic spaces. Most DAWs come with one these days. Don't try playing through them, though :)
 
redwire said:
I don't know what keFIR does under the hood (and I am not Jay Mitchell), so I can't tell you for sure if shortening the length is the same as truncating the file.

I recently uploaded a version of the IR library that's been truncated to 1024 samples, however. You can get it by checking your original download page or the update link I sent out a while back. This will give you a more apples to apples comparison and your results may differ.
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Thanks! I will download them and try them out. This should be a good apples to apples test.

In truth, I hope it is not the truncation and something that might be addressed in the software in the future.

redwire said:
keFIR is not the most accurate of the convolution plugs out there. SIR2 and Reverberate are the most accurate that I've used in the low latency camp, but they aren't free. If you're just previewing you can always use a plug-in like Perfect Space, Pristine Space, Space Designer, Altiverb, etc. that were intended for longer IRs of acoustic spaces. Most DAWs come with one these days. Don't try playing through them, though :)
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keFIR might not be the best out there, but I assume it doesn't color the sound in such a way that makes it sound better. If it does, then keFIR all the way. :)
 
Jay Mitchell: I should also add that I had some issues with the Axe Editor while trying to audition to the files. It would crash on me. However, it did upload the redwirez to the user cabs. Now, there could be an issue with that...perhaps it didn't really load one or messed it up or something. I wouldn't think so, but I guess it's possible. I would think if it loaded it, it should be fine.
 
I can report that, in my setup, the RW IR's I've tried (Celestion Blue, Speakerbox series & Tweed, Big Box series) do not sound "dark" or "blanketed". Quite the opposite, in fact.

I've only used / tried the RW-suppliied Axe-FX compatible files, and ignored the .WAV files.
 
Brian G said:
I can report that, in my setup, the RW IR's I've tried (Celestion Blue, Speakerbox series & Tweed, Big Box series) do not sound "dark" or "blanketed". Quite the opposite, in fact.

I've only used / tried the RW-suppliied Axe-FX compatible files, and ignored the .WAV files.
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I believe the dark and blanketed analogies are comparing the RW wavs to the RW sysex in AF.
 
Got it.

But if the .WAV files are in fact that much brighter than the RW IR's I've auditioned in the Axe, you can have 'em.
 
Brian G said:
Got it.

But if the .WAV files are in fact that much brighter than the RW IR's I've auditioned in the Axe, you can have 'em.
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Sounds like you may have a case of the thin fizzies. It seems to be affecting a few people. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of it, but some people seem to be having a problem with loading the IRs into the Axe-Fx. From the sample that was posted it sounds like a partial IR. The IR doesn't filter out the high-end like it's supposed to.

If you have a DAW set up, you may want to help me figure this out and run a test clip through the Axe-Fx, so I can determine if there really is a problem, or whether it's a matter of expectations. From what I've heard it sounds like a technical issue.

Check out this thread for more detail: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10934&start=20
 
redwire said:
Brian G said:
Got it.

But if the .WAV files are in fact that much brighter than the RW IR's I've auditioned in the Axe, you can have 'em.
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Sounds like you may have a case of the thin fizzies. It seems to be affecting a few people. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of it, but some people seem to be having a problem with loading the IRs into the Axe-Fx. From the sample that was posted it sounds like a partial IR. The IR doesn't filter out the high-end like it's supposed to.

If you have a DAW set up, you may want to help me figure this out and run a test clip through the Axe-Fx, so I can determine if there really is a problem, or whether it's a matter of expectations. From what I've heard it sounds like a technical issue.

Check out this thread for more detail: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10934&start=20
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Just to be clear - I don't have an issue, I like the IR's quite a lot. I was commenting on the difference in perceived tonal response between the .syx files and the full .wav files that some users seem to be taking issue with here.

Similarly, I like some of Jay's IR's a lot as well, but he's going for a different flavor, in focusing on non-close mic'd captures, and in many cases, off axis.

I've only ever used the old Editor to load IR's - it's always worked, no problems.
 
redwire said:
I recently uploaded a version of the IR library that's been truncated to 1024 samples, however. You can get it by checking your original download page or the update link I sent out a while back. This will give you a more apples to apples comparison and your results may differ.
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So, I downloaded them....amazingly fast compared to the regular ones. :D

I loaded the truncated version of the same cab/mic sim earlier. It sounded very much, almost identical if not so, to its non-truncated counterpart. So it's not the truncation that looses something. Since the loaded RW IRs sounds more similar to the AxeFXs cab sims than they do to the convolution plugin, I would suspect it be the difference in the way the AxeFX's algorithms handles the syx files compared to the way a convolution plugin's algorithms handles the IRs. Although, it still could be the conversion of the wav to syx files that is the difference. I don't know what that process entails or even what it converts it into. I'm not a programmer, so I don't know. I just know the convolution plugin, doing whatever it does when it analyzes the wav files, sounds really nice. I hope someone with more knowledge about it than I do could investigate it and see what options there are.
 
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