Should the "AIR" effect be more pronounced?

Should the "AIR" effect be more pronounced?

  • Total voters
    34
I guess I fit into the camp that would prefer an abundance of the Air effect so I can dial in exactly what I want - I would like it to be more pronounced (at the max setting).
 
Radley said:
I guess I fit into the camp that would prefer an abundance of the Air effect so I can dial in exactly what I want - I would like it to be more pronounced (at the max setting).
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I'm with you on this one...
 
Me too… I like what the effect adds to my tweaked Cliff of Dover patch :D

One thing I noticed though, the AIR effect works very well with stocks IRs, but much less with some custom ones, according to what I tested yet. With some custom IRs, adding AIR cut the punch/attack. It probably means that those IRs are not "correct" from a technical standpoint, although I like how they sound, I use them in my main Marshall rythm/lead/crunch patches.

Anyone noticed that with user IRs ?
 
fremen said:
Me too… I like what the effect adds to my tweaked Cliff of Dover patch :D

One thing I noticed though, the AIR effect works very well with stocks IRs, but much less with some custom ones, according to what I tested yet. With some custom IRs, adding AIR cut the punch/attack. It probably means that those IRs are not "correct" from a technical standpoint, although I like how they sound, I use them in my main Marshall rythm/lead/crunch patches.

Anyone noticed that with user IRs ?
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They are probably out of phase. When you add the direct sound in and the cab sim is out of phase, you will get a comb filtering effect.
 
No, they're not, as I can combine them without any problem with stock IRs. Some Recabinet 1.5 IRs, as pointed months ago by Jocke, were out of phase, but I corrected those too...
 
fremen said:
No, they're not, as I can combine them without any problem with stock IRs. Some Recabinet 1.5 IRs, as pointed months ago by Jocke, were out of phase, but I corrected those too...
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I can't think of anything else it would be. All it does is mix in the direct signal. Jocke noted that those were phase reversed. They can be less than 180 degrees out of phase and cause issues and they may even sound great w/ other cabs.. Have compared the phases of the stock ones to what you are using?
 
Maybe there's a short silence at the start on those IRs - and I'm not talking about Recabinet here, but GuitarHack and other famous IR makers, btw. But shouldn't they sound strange when combined with stock IRs then ? It's not the case. Anyway, no big deal, I don't feel like I need AIR with those, they're already quite bright.

But for stocks IR, sure, I can haz moar AIR ;)
 
fremen said:
One thing I noticed though, the AIR effect works very well with stocks IRs, but much less with some custom ones, according to what I tested yet. With some custom IRs, adding AIR cut the punch/attack.
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This is due to leading silence in the IRs, which adds delay to the signal. Cliff has said that he applies a minimum phase transform to his IRs. One effect of this transform is to eliminate leading silence (technically speaking, "excess delay") from the IRs.

Adding a delayed signal to an undelayed one will always result in some amount of comb filtering. There will still be some interference even with no leading silence, due to the nonzero group delay in any linear filter function (which will always be present in a speaker IR), but it will be much more subtle.
 
javajunkie said:
fremen said:
Yes, makes sense, and that's what I suspected the most. I should compare my GuitarHack impulse conversions with Cliff's own conversions, in the pack he released last year ( http://fractalaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1907 )
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Time delay will put 2 signals out of phase with each other.
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I believe there was a wish list item a while back for phase adjustment in the cab block. This would seem to be a handy feature to handle the variety of less-than-perfect IR's that are out there. Thoughts?
 
javajunkie said:
Time delay will put 2 signals out of phase with each other.
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Some care is warranted in making such a statement. Only two identical signals can be uniformly in phase with each other at all frequencies. If you add direct signal in parallel with the output of the cab sim, you are not adding two identical signals. The two signals you're adding will not be in phase at all frequencies, even if there is no leading silence in the IR. The result of this is worth noting: the exact effect of the "air" parameter will depend not only on its settings, but also on the detailed behavior of the IR you're using.
 
I hate to say this, but wouldn't have been better to add factory IR "far-field" equivalents (perhaps a near/far switch instead of the AIR concept) ?
 
m lebofsky said:
I hate to say this, but wouldn't have been better to add factory IR "far-field" equivalents (perhaps a near/far switch instead of the AIR concept) ?
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That would have been way cool, and much better than Air... but I suspect that the two IRs (near-field versus far-field) are completely different animals, and cannot possibly be converted from one to the other at the simple flip of a switch. Perhaps IR experts on this forum can elaborate...
 
Jay Mitchell said:
javajunkie said:
Time delay will put 2 signals out of phase with each other.
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Some care is warranted in making such a statement. Only two identical signals can be uniformly in phase with each other at all frequencies. If you add direct signal in parallel with the output of the cab sim, you are not adding two identical signals. The two signals you're adding will not be in phase at all frequencies, even if there is no leading silence in the IR. The result of this is worth noting: the exact effect of the "air" parameter will depend not only on its settings, but also on the detailed behavior of the IR you're using.
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Yes, absolutely.
 
Dpoirier said:
m lebofsky said:
I hate to say this, but wouldn't have been better to add factory IR "far-field" equivalents (perhaps a near/far switch instead of the AIR concept) ?
Click to expand...
That would have been way cool, and much better than Air... but I suspect that the two IRs (near-field versus far-field) are completely different animals, and cannot possibly be converted from one to the other at the simple flip of a switch. Perhaps IR experts on this forum can elaborate...
Click to expand...

I didn't expect the switch to convert them. There would have to be 2 seperate IRs for each cab. The switch would just select which one you want to use.
 
Dpoirier said:
I suspect that the two IRs (near-field versus far-field) are completely different animals, and cannot possibly be converted from one to the other at the simple flip of a switch.
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You are correct, sir.
 
just a quick note to add that I tested the AIR on custom IRs with my main hi gain patch, and I really loved it ! In fact, it's with my main clean patch that I lose some attack and punch, I'll have to test that more. Had tons of fun during a quick tweaking session today, unfortunately I had to go out, now I'm back but too drunk to play again :oops: :mrgreen:
 
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