Should I Buy an Amp?

toesalad

toesalad

Inspired
I am a new guitar player - I have been playing for about 2 years now. I have never owned an amp, and my current setup is an FM3 into a pair of HS7 studio monitors.

Part of me wants to buy a real amp and cab just to have one (some of these more modern amps look pretty interesting with built-in load boxes and even IR loaders). The other part of me worries that it would just be a waste of money because the Fractal is just as good (or better).

Reading this forum, I see some people sell all their amps and pedals and go exclusively digital, while others keep some amps around. Since I never started with an amp, I have no prior experience to compare my FM3 against.

Any words of wisdom to share? Being a new guitar player should I stay 100% digital? Or is there value in me getting at least one real tube amp at some point?
 
Well, it's complicated, I guess, and there probably isn't really a "right" answer. Let's hit a few things to keep in mind, just given what limited experience I can relate.
First off, your FM3 will sound just as good as a real amp, but the experience of playing a real amp is different because of the volume involved. Amps are seriously loud- if you've never played a real amp before, it's going to be eye opening just how crazy loud even a small amp can be. Just for this reason, I find most of them pretty cumbersome to deal with now that I'm embedded in the Fractal Way. To get them sounding right, they have to be moving some air and causing the tubes to be working hard, and that's going to be a challenge if you have a small playing space. What we guitarists think of as being a bedroom amp will still seem entirely too loud to anyone else in the general vicinity.
Second, working with a digital rig like the FM3 will spoil you for effects. Most decent amps either won't have any effects, or will maybe have reverb or trem, and that's it, and the experience of playing a totally dry amp can be pretty revealing and not as much fun as you'd think. Now you can get around this, because the FM3 will do just fine as a digital pedalboard, but dealing with just a dry amp is usually pretty humbling, and depending on your preferences and types of music you play, kind of uninspiring.

I started playing amps (like everyone did back in the day), and then when I went digital, I just couldn't go back to using primarily amps- there are just too many advantages to a digital rig, but that said, just recently, I've picked up a couple of amps after a solid decade of not having them around- I had a chance to pick up the real life version of my favorite amp in the Axe, so I nabbed it, and I bought another amp to keep upstairs so that my kids could hear me play- almost all of my practice was happening with headphones with my Axe Fx, and I think my four year old twins were starting to get the impression that I collected guitars more than played them- so I picked up a Swart so they could get accustomed to hearing music around the house. They are a ton of fun to play- it feels awesome to really crank one up and go- but they just aren't very practical because of the volume involved. A decent attenuator can help with this, but that's a whole separate topic.

In the end, it's your call, but you might want to try borrowing an amp from a friend for a week to get a feel for how they are in person- it's a very different, and often less pleasant experience, honestly.
 
Can agree to this...
If cou got the space and room you are able to crank a real amp up... its fun but not needed theese days...
I had several amps in the past (Engl, Randal, H&K, and others) and the only amp I own today is the one I built on my own 12 years ago.
Done this because I had the time and wanted to do it, not because I needed it.

I never played a classical amp live or rehearsal for about the last 15 years...OK the Johnson JM-250 I had was a real amp but a modelling amp head with 2x125W power amp included. It behaved like a classical amp because with to low volume it didn't sound right with a cab.
But with headphones surely same behaviour as Fractal.

There is really no need, so if you only want to get an idea of it I would also say, lent one and decide afterwards. (if possible)
I would spend the money to a good power amp for the FM3 and a good FRFR instead of an amp and cab.
 
I haven’t turned on my tube amps since I got the FM3. The FM3 is just that good. That being said, there’s something about a tube amp that’s just pure fun. But, if you can’t turn it up, it’s a waste. I’ll probably gradually sell them all except for one or two.
 
Thanks for the thoughtful replies!

I am aware of the volume issues. What I find interesting is that there is a whole bunch of engineering going into solving those. We now have amps like the REVV D20/G20 (and now their flagship Generator Mk III series) and Peavy Invective MH, with built-in reactive loads, IRs, and power scaling (the Peavy even has a 1 watt setting). Or there are products like the Boss Tube Amp Expander, the UA Ox Box, the Suhr Reactive Load, and all the Two Notes stuff that let you plug-in any amp.

From an outside observer, it would appear that there must be something really special about tube amps if all of this engineering is going into solving their problems. On the flipside, companies like Fractal are continuing to release new firmware updates (upcoming Cygnus...) to make it more realistic, which would seem to indicate that Fractal doesn't think they have captured everything that makes a tube amp special yet.

My natural inclination is to wonder what I am missing out on. From what I can tell, it must be either that companies are all trying to remain relevant and sell more gear (including Fractal), or that tube amps really do offer something and everyone is trying to solve the problems from a different perspective.
 
dtougas said:
Thanks for the thoughtful replies!

I am aware of the volume issues. What I find interesting is that there is a whole bunch of engineering going into solving those. We now have amps like the REVV D20/G20 (and now their flagship Generator Mk III series) and Peavy Invective MH, with built-in reactive loads, IRs, and power scaling (the Peavy even has a 1 watt setting). Or there are products like the Boss Tube Amp Expander, the UA Ox Box, the Suhr Reactive Load, and all the Two Notes stuff that let you plug-in any amp.

From an outside observer, it would appear that there must be something really special about tube amps if all of this engineering is going into solving their problems. On the flipside, companies like Fractal are continuing to release new firmware updates (upcoming Cygnus...) to make it more realistic, which would seem to indicate that Fractal doesn't think they have captured everything that makes a tube amp special yet.

My natural inclination is to wonder what I am missing out on. From what I can tell, it must be either that companies are all trying to remain relevant and sell more gear (including Fractal), or that tube amps really do offer something and everyone is trying to solve the problems from a different perspective.
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Your FM3 isn't missing out on anything- I hear what you're saying, but the modeling of the Fractal stuff these days is just crazy good, and there isn't really any practical level of a tube amp's performance that isn't covered with the FM3, at least without top of the line studio gear and golden ears.

I'm worried that what I'm about to say is going to sound sarcastic, and I don't mean it to- the only thing you're missing out on is the volume, and all of the other annoying things about amps- tech issues, hum, mystery crackles, replacing tubes, and over the long term, tinnitus.
You could pick up a power amp and a speaker cab to go along with your FM3 for less than a decent amp, and it'll sound great, be more flexible, and give you a similar experience to playing an amp.

Although again, I doubt there is a right answer here, per say- if you want to try out an amp, go for it! But in terms of sound quality, your FM3 is excellent, and personally, I don't think you're missing anything not using a "real" amp.
 
dtougas said:
From an outside observer, it would appear that there must be something really special about tube amps if all of this engineering is going into solving their problems.

My natural inclination is to wonder what I am missing out on. From what I can tell, it must be either that companies are all trying to remain relevant and sell more gear (including Fractal), or that tube amps really do offer something and everyone is trying to solve the problems from a different perspective.
Click to expand...

The first 30+ years of recorded rock and metal was mostly tube amps, so a huge percentage of the market is driven by players wanting to recreate those sounds. It's just part of the DNA of those genres. The problem is that those iconic sounds were achieved at volumes that are not practical for home use, or even in most clubs these days - so companies have tried to work around that through attenuation and modeling. Personally, I get more satisfying results through my Axe FX III than I do by attenuating a cranked tube amp. But as I said before, you should definitely try it for yourself. Try to find an amp you can check out locally before buying.
 
In many ways, I don't see tube amps and modellers as alternatives for the same purposes, since a modeller reproduces the sound of an isolated mic'd amp/cab, while a tube amp on its own (even with power scaling) is providing the very different experience of amp in the room with no close micing, no mic pre, ... and varying ability to manage volume vs power amp gain. Lots of folks want both, or one or the other, for different applications, and many use hybrid solutions (modellers into tube amp returns / tube amps with modelling built in...). Tube amps still seem to be alive, well, not going away any time soon, and even expanding (ie Revv).
 
I would borrow one from a friend, or rent, or maybe somewhere near you has a generous return policy. It's totally valid to return something because you were unsatisfied with it, i.e. maybe you find that the Fractal really is what you wanted all along and the amp isn't necessary. But I'd take time with it, try out different amps in a music store or a friend's house if you can, take a couple home for a bit.
 
wulftone said:
I would borrow one from a friend, or rent, or maybe somewhere near you has a generous return policy. It's totally valid to return something because you were unsatisfied with it, i.e. maybe you find that the Fractal really is what you wanted all along and the amp isn't necessary. But I'd take time with it, try out different amps in a music store or a friend's house if you can, take a couple home for a bit.
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For sure. Don't buy one online if you can help it.
 
I have the Axe-Fx III and a few tube amplifiers. I rarely use my tube amps any more. I think I've played my tube amps less than 10 times in the last year. As others have pointed out, the volume you need to run a tube amp at in order for it to sound like they were meant to is just not reasonable for every day practice unless you have a dedicated space. With my 100W head and 4x12 cab I was running about 100 - 115 dB in the room. My ears ring after playing at those volumes and I know that spells trouble for my hearing health. I have a 1W amp as well and running that with a 2x12 cab still pushes 90+ dB with the volume at 1/3. Tube amplifiers are loud.
 
I'd try it out if I was you and if you like it use it, if it's redundant or you don't like it return it or sell it. I had a PRS Archon 25 and don't really miss it at all.
 
There is something cool and magical about a bunch of valves running at burning temperatures providing a rich and roaring tone that is pretty satisfying. It like starting up an old car engine. Amazing that it works and fun to watch/hear.
 
Me? I couldn't care less about owning a tube amp anymore. I only see deficiencies compared to FAS products. Tube amps are too loud, too heavy, no FX (or very limited), they don't sound good at all volume levels, there's maintenance costs, and none of them are as inspiring as my FAS gear nor will a tube amp make me excited about a new firmware update. 😜
 
I have 4 amp heads including Vox AC, JCM800 and Plexi. All of them have power scaling and were built custom with turret board wiring. I had to downsize my living space and the bulky guitar cabs were some of the first gear to go. Even with power scaling I’d play them around 90db or about as loud as a loud stereo system. The amp heads gather dust now and represent about $3,000 of wasted money. I keep them out of nostalgia I guess. Guitar playing friends have complimented me on the sound of the amps when they are cranked up loud. But these same friends have borrowed an AX8 for rehearsal and a few gigs and were equally impressed.

My take away is that real amps and Fractal both sound equally great. But in the end the Fractal gear achieves 99% of it with less space, less total cost, less weight, less tinnitus, less GAS.

Borrow or rent a tube amp or travel to a store that will let you demo one. But I wouldnt drop over $1000 online just to satisfy curiousity. For that you could feed the NGD habit.
 
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