Should I Buy an Amp?

One thing I'm finding with my real amp and my fm3 through a digital amp and then through a different combo speaker / cab is that the real amp is super helpful for comparison purposes.

I can create a tone through the fm3 and it sounds good. Then I switch to the real amp and I like that better. So then I keep tweaking the fm3 until I get sounds I like better.

Without the comparison I might not have the direction that helps me figure out what I'm looking for.

To be fair while the fm3 through this setup can produce sounds that start to get at the same level as my Tone King it is much easier to get them with the amp at the moment for me.

I suspect that a more neutral amp / speaker setup for the fm3 would even that out and I would have better results with stock and other presets.

The variety of sounds I can get with the fm3 is definitely much broader.

That said I'm playing the FM3 through my marshall jcm900 combo and for the most part I prefer the fm3 into that cabinet then playing through the jcm900 amp at any volume I can stomach in my house.

My Tone King doesn't have an effects loop so I can't really use that speaker conveniently with the fm3.
 
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johnnypig said:
If I were starting now I would get an FM3 or something similar. New players are so lucky. I had a Peavey Rage.
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I couldn't afford an amp for the first four years or so I owned an electric- I borrowed a keyboard amp from the dorm I was living in in college- then I picked up one of those old desktop Vox tonelab boxes, and soon there after, a hotrod DeVille. Good times!!!
 
Interessting Disscusion. Most here talk about loud tubeamps - but there also amps that sound almost good at lower levels. If you ever have the chance to try a Diezel Amp - a VH4 or Herbert or Paul - do it. I havent´t tried the FM3 yet, but in the Axe II there are some amps that don´t sound and react like the original. But that´s something you only know when you have tried the real amp.

Or say on the other way - if you don´t care, how the originals sound, you will be satisfied with your sound - also a way to be happy with your own guitarworld. There are many players who can´t stop comparing instead of playing music and have fun.

Going FRFR ist not the same as a real amp + cab - cause have only the miced signal of the IR. An IR (or a Mix of it) is still not the same sound as whole cab - lots of disscusions. The only way to compare is using the preamp only of the FM3, a power amp and a real cab - something which worked already with the Axe standard
 
Wolfgang H said:
Interessting Disscusion. Most here talk about loud tubeamps - but there also amps that sound almost good at lower levels. If you ever have the chance to try a Diezel Amp - a VH4 or Herbert or Paul - do it. I havent´t tried the FM3 yet, but in the Axe II there are some amps that don´t sound and react like the original. But that´s something you only know when you have tried the real amp.

Or say on the other way - if you don´t care, how the originals sound, you will be satisfied with your sound - also a way to be happy with your own guitarworld. There are many players who can´t stop comparing instead of playing music and have fun.

Going FRFR ist not the same as a real amp + cab - cause have only the miced signal of the IR. An IR (or a Mix of it) is still not the same sound as whole cab - lots of disscusions. The only way to compare is using the preamp only of the FM3, a power amp and a real cab - something which worked already with the Axe standard
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My VH4 kills at low volume.
 
I'm an apartment dweller for the near future and I dust my tube amps more than play them these days. I sometimes use my 5150 to reamp metal rhythm guitars but otherwise I find myself choosing Fractal models for finished mixes over real tube amps more often than not.
 
I live somewhat in the country with a nice back yard and no close neighbors. So when the weather is nice, I'll roll my 4x12's out onto the back porch, and crank up the stereo Mesa rack rig (with the wireless, so I can stand away from the cabs, because it's loud!) I think every guitar player should be able to experience that: Playing a cranked tube amp, outside. The echo across the woods gives me goosebumps.

Kinda like if you're into cars, and have a really nice one, you should get to experience smoking the tires on an old muscle car, or even a new one, if you can get the chance. But I wouldn't get hung up on it, as it has a remote possibility of creating what another poster mentioned: GAS- Gear Acquisition Syndrome. And you've probably made a good start in never having that problem, since you went first into digital modelling at a very good time. Since getting an AF3, the only tube amp I use regularly is my Mesa 20/20. Mainly because I have yet to move totally into FRFR.
 
To follow-up with this thread... Long & McQuade here in Canada has a great rental department. They don't have a lot of variety available, but a couple things to check-out. Yesterday I decided to start with a JC 40 (not tubes, I know) as I have always been curious about it's stereo ability. I wanted to see what this whole 4CM thing is all about since I don't want to buy a bunch of pedals, but stereo is kinda cool.

Anyways, so far, the experience is kinda meh. Just playing straight into the amp sounds quite nice (though loud!) for clean tones, and the chorus/reverb are alright. The 4CM is kind of a pain to get the levels right, and the drive pedals in front from the FM3 were not particularly inspiring. I am by no means an expert in this stuff (you have to start somewhere!), but so far, I much prefer the process of setting levels in the FM3 than having to deal with the amp and effects loop.

Bypassing the preamp altogether and just going into the return wasn't particularly inspiring either. My studio monitors are much more satisfying so far.

One of the other amps they have is a Hughes & Kettner Grandmeister 40. I might check that one out next.
 
My journey was like this. Played in a band (vocal) where the guitar players had Marshalls. Loved the cranked sound recognizable in bands I loved but I thought that there must be some kind of wizardry involved with bands like Metallica and DT since I couldn't recognize their sound in the amps I knew. After I came to the New World and I first played a Mesa I wanted one and I decided for the IV but couldn't find/afford so I settled with a more common V combo. Too loud to get the right tone so I got a decent attenuator as well. Played happily for a few years, inspired and all, but then started to discover other sounds like Engl, Bogner Shiva, Revv, Fortin, EVH, Archon and the like. Since I'm using this as a way to pry the songs out of my head (keep playing them in my head until I record them), I realize I couldn't afford or have space for all of them. So I got a Zoom G9.2 tt (twin tubes for the warmth that I couldn't get in a BOSS) but it was sterile compared to my Mark. Then I went to a Haken concert and noticed there were no amps around. Sorcery! And here I am.
 
dtougas said:
To follow-up with this thread... Long & McQuade here in Canada has a great rental department. They don't have a lot of variety available, but a couple things to check-out. Yesterday I decided to start with a JC 40 (not tubes, I know) as I have always been curious about it's stereo ability. I wanted to see what this whole 4CM thing is all about since I don't want to buy a bunch of pedals, but stereo is kinda cool.

Anyways, so far, the experience is kinda meh. Just playing straight into the amp sounds quite nice (though loud!) for clean tones, and the chorus/reverb are alright. The 4CM is kind of a pain to get the levels right, and the drive pedals in front from the FM3 were not particularly inspiring. I am by no means an expert in this stuff (you have to start somewhere!), but so far, I much prefer the process of setting levels in the FM3 than having to deal with the amp and effects loop.

Bypassing the preamp altogether and just going into the return wasn't particularly inspiring either. My studio monitors are much more satisfying so far.

One of the other amps they have is a Hughes & Kettner Grandmeister 40. I might check that one out next.
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Same. I wasn’t blown away by the 4CM either. I won’t bother with it again.
 
"You know, once you've had that guitar up so loud on the stage, where you can lean back and volume will stop you from falling backward, that's a hard drug to kick." - David Gilmour

This kind of thing is what most people think when this sort of question is asked, and for good reason. It's glorious to be able to play like that! The opportunities to do it, though, are limited if you aren't in a gigging situation similar to Mr. Gilmour. All is not lost, though, because (the right) tube amps sound great at lower volume too.

The digital vs analog debate isn't really a debate for me. It isn't either/or, it's both. Need? Nah, you're fine with the FM3. But, as has been said by many (including me), you really begin to appreciate the quality of the models when you've experienced the amp being modeled. And there is always going to be something special about those amps, which is why they were modeled in the first place!

In the end, it's up to the player. With the Axe FX and its lineage, you can play from now on with nary a tube in sight. But, for me personally, it's a little sad that many in the current and future generations of players will never experience the original inspiration for Fractal Audio Systems’ great work.
 
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dtougas said:
The 4CM is kind of a pain to get the levels right, and the drive pedals in front from the FM3 were not particularly inspiring. I am by no means an expert in this stuff (you have to start somewhere!), but so far, I much prefer the process of setting levels in the FM3 than having to deal with the amp and effects loop.
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Are you talking about the Drives in the FM3 or Drives you plugged in additional in front of the FM3?
 
Great advice here.

I've been completely amp-less for many years, only using modelers. It works well for me for a number of reasons...mostly I never want to play loud, so getting a loud amp has very little appeal to me. Plus the variety of amps and effects, easy to program, etc.

To me it could be tricky to be a newer player only with an amp modeler. I think there's a lot of upside in having a simple amp without a lot of bells and whistles for practice purpose. Or obviously an amp for playing with others.

If you're just playing at home, check out something like the Yamaha THR10 series...it's a lower volume portable amp made just for home use. Runs on batteries if you like, or AC adapter. There's a few amp types and a couple basic effects but really simple and can help force you to focus on playing.

If you have friends with amps, see if you can borrow one for several days. You may find you love it and want one immediately. Or you may find you hate the volume, size, and lack of variety.

And if you just need to buy an amp, definitely recommend looking used first, but those Revv 20 watt amps look like a good bet too. Having attenuation and an effects loop would be really important.
 
Jarick said:
Great advice here.

I've been completely amp-less for many years, only using modelers. It works well for me for a number of reasons...mostly I never want to play loud, so getting a loud amp has very little appeal to me. Plus the variety of amps and effects, easy to program, etc.

To me it could be tricky to be a newer player only with an amp modeler. I think there's a lot of upside in having a simple amp without a lot of bells and whistles for practice purpose. Or obviously an amp for playing with others.

If you're just playing at home, check out something like the Yamaha THR10 series...it's a lower volume portable amp made just for home use. Runs on batteries if you like, or AC adapter. There's a few amp types and a couple basic effects but really simple and can help force you to focus on playing.

If you have friends with amps, see if you can borrow one for several days. You may find you love it and want one immediately. Or you may find you hate the volume, size, and lack of variety.

And if you just need to buy an amp, definitely recommend looking used first, but those Revv 20 watt amps look like a good bet too. Having attenuation and an effects loop would be really important.
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This

A 'proper' real amp - a combo being the ideal toe in the water one - needs to be played at a certain volume to come alive. The volume with just you and it in a room would seem excessive as it needs a few other backline instruments at the same time to make sense. You turn it up to be comfortably heard with a drum kit traditionally speaking. It will be a 'loud' experience!! You also get a bit more clean headroom at a stage volume. If you turn down the amp to bedroom levels it loses all the sweet spots.

I think an amp needs a 12 inch speaker or 2 to sound right and the power amp and speakers needs driven a bit .... so I'm not a great fan of power soaks and the like. Manufacturers adding all the attenuation stuff to a tradional amp is really just trying to compete with dedicated modellers .... in my opinion you'd be better operating each rig do what it's supposed to do. Mic up a real valve amp/speaker rig and DI the modeller/FRFR rig.

Little baby amps like the Yamaha TH10 (I have one of those too) are rehearsal tools ... not a brilliant sound when compared to a real amp but easy to throw in a bag and sit in someone's living room and quietly rehearse/arrange which is what we do in our band rather than hire a full blown loud reheasal room every time. If you've already got a FM3 then just get yourself a couple of little cheap powered 5 inch monitors and you'll be near enough in that TH10 territory in terms of portability and sound.

I'm a long time player and have both traditional and modelling rigs .... no mix or matching going on in my case. However you could of course use your modeller in the fx loop of an amp ..... but be prepared to turn it up to get results.
 
You already own a piece of gear that in many ways is as good as it gets.
Unless your willing to spend a lot of $ on a really nice amp that is plug and play-
you might not get much benefit or satisfaction- or re-sale value.
There is also probably going to be something about a modern amp that you do not like and cannot change and you will have to live with it.
And if it stops workin- good luck with parts, shipping and finding someone willing to try to fix it.
Just be aware that there is a significant risk of senselessly wasting time and money-
and getting sidetracked from playing and getting more proficient with what you already have.
 
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