Sending 'full signal' to FOH (Similar to Helix)

I think this is being waaaay over thought. Set the foh output 1 or 2, whichever you are using to 12 o’clock, if you are asked to lower it, lower it if not all good. Digital mixers only want to see around -18 dbfs on a per channel in the input.
 
With my fm3 I used to set the knobs at noon. On my fm9, I find I have to set them at nine o clock to get the same amount of signal
 
Start somewhere around noon.

I have seen this scenario a million times:
FOH soundguy unplugs the mic from a SM57 set up on stage and plugs it directly into the FM9/FM3/AxeFX3 and never pads or gain stages the knob to accept line level rather than mic level. You strum a chord and the room shakes and he immediately screams 'TURN DOWN' even though you're running direct.

Happens alot on quick changeovers, festival dates and dealing with rookie sound engineers.This is why I usually opt -not- to leave the output knobs fully up. I don't want to blow the desk especially if you're gigging in a lot of different situations.

Dedicate one of the outputs to FOH and the rest for your own monitoring and you'll be fine to turn knobs independently while leaving the FOH knob alone.
 
I wasn't able get decent sound on our church mixer unless I gave Ouput 1 full blast on my FM3. It was XLR direct to the board and it handled it fine-no overload. Anything less and it was 'missing' some gain or amp character/clarity.
 
thetanger said:
I wasn't able get decent sound on our church mixer unless I gave Ouput 1 full blast on my FM3. It was XLR direct to the board and it handled it fine-no overload. Anything less and it was 'missing' some gain or amp character/clarity.
Click to expand...
That doesn't really make much sense.

The output volume from the FM3 is volume only. You could have just increased the level at the mixer...

Either case should just be clean amplification.

Also, were you using -10 or +4dB on the Output setting?
 
sick pickle said:
One thing I am not understanding (compared to Helix) is the concept on output 1 or 2 sending a 'full signal'. On Helix, there was a global setting where you could basically disable the larger volume knob on lets say, the XLR outs, it only impact the 1/4 outputs, which was useful for controlling your on stage FRFR volume - but at the same time, was sending a 'max' signal to the FOH (assuming you set the level of your preset accordingly).

On my FM9, if I am sending Output 1 to FOH, would I turn the volume knob of Output 1 to full max to achieve the same thing?
Click to expand...
No. Coming from using a Helix for over 7 years, all you were doing was disabling the Volume Knob, as we all did to avoid bumping it when playing live and makie sure the FOH had a consistent signal. The Volume Knob was still dictated by the output levels you set up in your Helix via the overal patch level (Which was adjusted in multiple places , such as Channel Volume, Cab Level, and Output Level at the end of the chain). On the FM9, the beauty is we have an output knob for each Output and they can be adjusted independently, and gives us information to make sure we aren't clipping. The best part is we have all sorts of level indicatiors and an easy way to adjust levels per scene, which I am sure you will agree is way better than the way Helix handled that.

I leave my Output 1 at around 10 o'clock and have never had a problem with FOH, but on my Helix I was always having to use a global EQ level to knock it down for them, since it wasn't easy to adjust without changing the patch level in the various places.
 
12:00 is smart. It's a good level to drive the desk with out needing a lot of extra gain or a pad. And it's easy to set the knob the same way every time.

I have been using my Fractal gear backwards for years though. Out 1 has always been FOH and out 2 to FRFRs. I learned something today.. that I have just read past and missed in the manual several times.
 
WKSmith said:
12:00 is smart.
Click to expand...
Yup. 12:00 is a good, strong level, and it gives you somewhere to go as a last resort when the guy behind the desk doesn’t know or doesn’t care that he’s buried you in the mix.

WKSmith said:
I have been using my Fractal gear backwards for years though. Out 1 has always been FOH and out 2 to FRFRs.
Click to expand...
That’s not necessarily backwards. On the FM3, Out 1 is XLR only. It’s a natural for FOH.
 
thetanger said:
I wasn't able get decent sound on our church mixer unless I gave Ouput 1 full blast on my FM3. It was XLR direct to the board and it handled it fine-no overload. Anything less and it was 'missing' some gain or amp character/clarity.
Click to expand...
Where was the head amp setting on the console or did it have one? Even with -10 dB set on the output and the volume knob all the way up unless you are running through a 1000' of snake you should have had plenty of signal at the board.
sick pickle said:
One thing I am not understanding (compared to Helix) is the concept on output 1 or 2 sending a 'full signal'. On Helix, there was a global setting where you could basically disable the larger volume knob on lets say, the XLR outs, it only impact the 1/4 outputs, which was useful for controlling your on stage FRFR volume - but at the same time, was sending a 'max' signal to the FOH (assuming you set the level of your preset accordingly).

On my FM9, if I am sending Output 1 to FOH, would I turn the volume knob of Output 1 to full max to achieve the same thing?
Click to expand...
Comparing the FM to a Helix is an apples to Oranges deal! Best advice and I'm not trying to be snarky here is either make a suggestion to add that feature, or just use the volume knobs as they were intended ;).
 
WKSmith said:
12:00 is smart. It's a good level to drive the desk with out needing a lot of extra gain or a pad. And it's easy to set the knob the same way every time.

I have been using my Fractal gear backwards for years though. Out 1 has always been FOH and out 2 to FRFRs. I learned something today.. that I have just read past and missed in the manual several times.
Click to expand...
That will of course depend on whether you're sending -10 or +4dB...

With +4dB it might be a bit on the hot side.
 
WKSmith said:
12:00 is smart. It's a good level to drive the desk with out needing a lot of extra gain or a pad. And it's easy to set the knob the same way every time.

I have been using my Fractal gear backwards for years though. Out 1 has always been FOH and out 2 to FRFRs. I learned something today.. that I have just read past and missed in the manual several times.
Click to expand...
why do you assume youre running it backwards? i use out1 to foh too. not sure i understand why out2 should go to foh. i assumed the manual was making a suggestion.
 
PSea said:
why do you assume youre running it backwards? i use out1 to foh too. not sure i understand why out2 should go to foh. i assumed the manual was making a suggestion.
Click to expand...
I'm just seeing different guidance in the manual for best practice ..than what I am already doing. I haven't switched anything yet.

I did migrate from the FM3 though ..so out one is the xlr and the natural choice for a FOH feed.
 
to op:

-even if you max out1, youre not going to avoid volume issues if you havent leveled your presets. my approach:

-rhythm scenes are leveled to 0db using the preset leveling tool

-lead scenes typically include a 1-3db boost vs rhythm scenes

-i do that for all presets. no clipping. (assumes you set the master input gain on the fractal for your guitar's pickups before doing ANYTHING related to building presets)

-on cliff's (and many others' advice), i set my out1 (foh) & out2 (monitors) to noon.

-on the digital PA i then set the fader to unity and then set the channel input gain such that my signal is around -18dbu.

-then i sit and watch as the other guitar bitches and complains every other song that he cant hear himself (because his lazy ass refuses to level his own presets and his volumes are all over the place...AAF). but better him than me.
 
I’ve watched some YouTube videos and I am led to believe that output 3 always send unity gain. I’m a newbie to the FM9, but I’m planning on using output 3 to send stereo to my power amp out to two Marshall 1960 greenback cabs. Output 1 is going from the XLRs stereo to FOH
 
droosa70 said:
I’ve watched some YouTube videos and I am led to believe that output 3 always send unity gain. I’m a newbie to the FM9, but I’m planning on using output 3 to send stereo to my power amp out to two Marshall 1960 greenback cabs. Output 1 is going from the XLRs stereo to FOH
Click to expand...
Output 3 sends unity gain when the front panel knob is 100%.

However, the associated Output 3 block also has a Level control that can be turned up to 20dB (from memory).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom