Sending 'full signal' to FOH (Similar to Helix)

sick pickle

sick pickle

Inspired
One thing I am not understanding (compared to Helix) is the concept on output 1 or 2 sending a 'full signal'. On Helix, there was a global setting where you could basically disable the larger volume knob on lets say, the XLR outs, it only impact the 1/4 outputs, which was useful for controlling your on stage FRFR volume - but at the same time, was sending a 'max' signal to the FOH (assuming you set the level of your preset accordingly).

On my FM9, if I am sending Output 1 to FOH, would I turn the volume knob of Output 1 to full max to achieve the same thing?
 
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A great starting place is chapter 4 in the manual. It describes all of this. Also Connections and Levels is a great reference.

sick pickle said:
…would I turn the volume knob of Output 1 to full max to achieve the same thing?
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The idea is to send the maximum signal to the other device figuring that, by doing so, there will be the minimum noise. In my reality, my output ends up being at noon which is when FOH is very happy.
 
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Greg Ferguson said:
A great starting place is chapter 4 in the manual. It describes all of this. Also Connections and Levels is a great reference.
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Thanks - I've checked these but still unsure on Output 1 volume knob. I haven't used my FM9 with a sound guy yet, so I don't have the experience to know at what volume I should be sending them to 'make them happy' (per the manual). That's why I thought just sending a max signal and letting them take care of the channel was the answer.
 
sick pickle said:
Thanks - I've checked these but still unsure on Output 1 volume knob. I haven't used my FM9 with a sound guy yet, so I don't have the experience to know at what volume I should be sending them to 'make them happy' (per the manual). That's why I thought just sending a max signal and letting them take care of the channel was the answer.
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If that won’t make them happy then there’s nothing else you can do.

Seriously, these things are made to work with other pro equipment so you should be fine.

I always start at 50% and am talking with the FOH guy and give him more signal until he says to stop.
 
sick pickle said:
I haven't used my FM9 with a sound guy yet, so I don't have the experience to know at what volume I should be sending them to 'make them happy' (per the manual). That's why I thought just sending a max signal and letting them take care of the channel was the answer.
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It can vary depending on the desk. My practice is to crank the Output to the max (as I did with the Helix) and let the FOH tech worry about gain staging and the mix. Most newer desks won't have an issue with this however, a few older units may not have the headroom to gain down your signal. At which point, your sound tech will be sure to tell you so :)

The benefit to me of maxing it out as the default is I don't need to worry about accidentally moving the output knob and then resetting levels again after we have done the sound check.
 
NattyBar said:
It can vary depending on the desk. My practice is to crank the Output to the max (as I did with the Helix) and let the FOH tech worry about gain staging and the mix. Most newer desks won't have an issue with this however, a few older units may not have the headroom to gain down your signal. At which point, your sound tech will be sure to tell you so :)

The benefit to me of maxing it out as the default is I don't need to worry about accidentally moving the output knob and then resetting levels again after we have done the sound check.
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I think the sound guy will appreciate if you start lower and turn up... ;)

For the OP, it also matters if you have your output mode set to -10 or +4dB.

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And also how you've leveled your presets.
 
@unix-guy no point in starting lower… your channel is muted and gain staging is done before anything gets in the house. It’s inefficient to add unnecessary steps to the process by adjusting gradually and you end up with more variables to worry about later on. Was the output at 2pm or 4pm… was that at this venue or that venue… what that tonight or last night 🤔 Add a couple of beers and… 😂

Of course all of this assumes the desk can handle your hot signal … and your sound tech is semi-competent 😅
 
sick pickle said:
Thanks - I've checked these but still unsure on Output 1 volume knob. I haven't used my FM9 with a sound guy yet, so I don't have the experience to know at what volume I should be sending them to 'make them happy' (per the manual). That's why I thought just sending a max signal and letting them take care of the channel was the answer.
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On my fm9. , my out 1 volume knob is at about 25%, and the sound people are happy.
 
sick pickle said:
One thing I am not understanding (compared to Helix) is the concept on output 1 or 2 sending a 'full signal'. On Helix, there was a global setting where you could basically disable the larger volume knob on lets say, the XLR outs, it only impact the 1/4 outputs, which was useful for controlling your on stage FRFR volume - but at the same time, was sending a 'max' signal to the FOH (assuming you set the level of your preset accordingly).

On my FM9, if I am sending Output 1 to FOH, would I turn the volume knob of Output 1 to full max to achieve the same thing?
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I played out with my FM9 for the first time last weekend. This is what I do and it worked great:
Copy output 1 to output 2
Send output 1 set to +4dB to FoH, volume knob around 4 o'clock
Send output 2 set tp -10dB to my FRFR, tweaked volume knob to my liking. Also have a global PEQ set for only output 2.
 
I've never sent a signal to FOH in any scenario but I hope to do so, so this topic is interesting to me as well.

What I'm getting is that methods vary from person to person and they all work equally well; there's no "best practice" here? Send the sound guy some level of signal and let them tell you if they want more or less?
 
Deadpool_25 said:
I've never sent a signal to FOH in any scenario but I hope to do so, so this topic is interesting to me as well.

What I'm getting is that methods vary from person to person and they all work equally well; there's no "best practice" here? Send the sound guy some level of signal and let them tell you if they want more or less?
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Exactly. This was the heart of my post - by using the Helix example (disable volume knob entirely) you always send the exact same signal every time and remove the volume guessing from the equation.

I will give it a go on my first outing and report back!
 
Straight from manual. Seems like a sensible setup.

“Global Settings: “Out 2 Copy Out 1” Turned ON
Presets: Factory or Custom

This setup sends identical signals to the front-of-house PA and your personal FRFR monitor, with separate level and global EQ controls for each. As in other Direct/FRFR setups, the FM9 creates a fully modeled end-to-end guitar sound for the ultimate in flexibility—stompboxes, amps, cabs, post effects, and more.

Output 1 is used for your personal monitor. It can be connected with XLR or using a HumbusterTM cable if the monitor does not have a balanced input. Set your personal levels using the front panel OUT 1 knob.

Output 2 is sent to front of house as an independent copy of Out 1 with its own level control from the front panel OUT 2 knob. (PRO TIP: Set it and forget it... make the sound tech happy!) Instead of inserting the Output 2 block manually in every preset, use this simple trick: navigate to SETUP: I/O: Audio and change Output 2/Copy Output 1 to “ON”. Output 2 will now replicate the signal being at Output 1.
  • If you are working with a sound technician, be sure to tell them that you are outputting a line level input — NOT a microphone level signal. They should use a balanced line input without a preamp.
  • Also tell them you are sending a fully processed “mix-ready” sound, and that they should “zero” the channel with no EQ or processing, at least to start.”
 
GitGuy513 said:
Straight from manual. Seems like a sensible setup.

“Global Settings: “Out 2 Copy Out 1” Turned ON
Presets: Factory or Custom

This setup sends identical signals to the front-of-house PA and your personal FRFR monitor, with separate level and global EQ controls for each. As in other Direct/FRFR setups, the FM9 creates a fully modeled end-to-end guitar sound for the ultimate in flexibility—stompboxes, amps, cabs, post effects, and more.

Output 1 is used for your personal monitor. It can be connected with XLR or using a HumbusterTM cable if the monitor does not have a balanced input. Set your personal levels using the front panel OUT 1 knob.

Output 2 is sent to front of house as an independent copy of Out 1 with its own level control from the front panel OUT 2 knob. (PRO TIP: Set it and forget it... make the sound tech happy!) Instead of inserting the Output 2 block manually in every preset, use this simple trick: navigate to SETUP: I/O: Audio and change Output 2/Copy Output 1 to “ON”. Output 2 will now replicate the signal being at Output 1.
  • If you are working with a sound technician, be sure to tell them that you are outputting a line level input — NOT a microphone level signal. They should use a balanced line input without a preamp.
  • Also tell them you are sending a fully processed “mix-ready” sound, and that they should “zero” the channel with no EQ or processing, at least to start.”
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I have always added an "output 2" block to the presets I use for gigs, then bemoan when I when I want to switch to a preset that I didn't prep with an output 2 block ahead of time. Never knew that I could change things globally. That's really helpful to know. I guess that I should RTFM more often. Thanks for posting this!
 
lscottk said:
I have always added an "output 2" block to the presets I use for gigs, then bemoan when I when I want to switch to a preset that I didn't prep with an output 2 block ahead of time. Never knew that I could change things globally. That's really helpful to know. I guess that I should RTFM more often. Thanks for posting this!
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Section 4 in the manual has many examples of connecting the modeler to other equipment, and talks about the adjustments needed to make it work.
 
unix-guy said:
Right... And incorrectly assuming the desk can take that signal may make for a very unhappy sound person, which is why I start lower. ;)
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It’d be a fairly precious sound tech to get upset from a hot signal 😂. Won’t make any difference to the desk … the Fractal units aren’t pumping out bolts of lightning. Over the years I’ve been asked to turn down my output all of one time and that was from a tech who wasn’t familiar with that venue’s system. The next time he was fine.

But as @sick pickle mentioned we all end up in the same place. So maximise the signal to noise ratio however works best 🙌🏻
 
So is there a way to disable or lock the output 2 knob on the FM9 going to FOH? As sick pickle mentioned, on the Helix the XLR outs are just set and locked so that the FOH level can never accidentally be changed. It would be great (and make total sense!) to be able to set the output 2 level and then "lock" it or disable the knob somehow. I haven't found a way to do this yet, hence my asking.
 
behaviour said:
So is there a way to disable or lock the output 2 knob on the FM9 going to FOH? As sick pickle mentioned, on the Helix the XLR outs are just set and locked so that the FOH level can never accidentally be changed. It would be great (and make total sense!) to be able to set the output 2 level and then "lock" it or disable the knob somehow. I haven't found a way to do this yet, hence my asking.
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Nope...
 
behaviour said:
So is there a way to disable or lock the output 2 knob on the FM9 going to FOH? As sick pickle mentioned, on the Helix the XLR outs are just set and locked so that the FOH level can never accidentally be changed. It would be great (and make total sense!) to be able to set the output 2 level and then "lock" it or disable the knob somehow. I haven't found a way to do this yet, hence my asking.
Click to expand...
Gaffer’s tape works great.
 
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