Selling HX Stomp to save and purchase an FM3. is it worth it?

[mehegama]

I can't tell difference in a blind test even with the real amp.. the important part is the response when playing modelers.

then you agree that the statement: sonically there is no comparison, is exaggerating to say the least. I personally get the same resposnse from both platforms on different picking/playing techniques. In the end of the day it comes to personal preferences. my objection on this subject is that when i hear that A annihilates B, it s an not an objective reality.

 

[Joce]

I don't have an FM3 but I have an Axe III and I do keep an HX Stomp and an Eventide H9 around, mainly as a backup rig, but also because I play bass as well, so the Stomp definitely gives me some additional options in terms of bass amps, but also I find a few drives that I like. So sometimes I'll patch the Stomp or the H9 in a loop with the III.. as others have said.. more options is always good! ;-)

 

[cnaufel]

The unit sounds good but the feel is not there specially when palm muting ( high gain). I Tried IRs and same issue..
I downloaded Bias fx 2 and the response was there! ( using same IRs as the Helix). Now im confuse, because i read bad reviews about Bias
and personally i like it more than helix only in response of pick attack and such, not that much in sound . So is this a placebo effect, personal preference or its the technology behind that makes the response better? I will be selling the Hx Stomp, is the FM3 worth it?

Yes! I would sell the Helix because you don’t use anymore neither like the feel.

 

[Erock93]

I can't stand the amount of tweaking it takes on any helix product to get a good tone, have to boost any distorted amp to get the feel there , fm3 sounds good with no tweaks , and amazing when you dial it in with the feel there too

 

[wcfieldskx]

The FM3 is far superior to the Stomp IMO. Amp modelling is noticeably way better, and so are the effects and editing software. No comparison. I had a Stomp for a few weeks and didn't really like anything about it.

 

[Jarick]

then you agree that the statement: sonically there is no comparison, is exaggerating to say the least. I personally get the same resposnse from both platforms on different picking/playing techniques. In the end of the day it comes to personal preferences. my objection on this subject is that when i hear that A annihilates B, it s an not an objective reality.

For me they were too close to care in sound clips. I have tons of them. They are really similar.

But the feel while playing is a difference. To me the Helix gets to be grating over time and I find myself annoyed. It's hard to describe. I don't get that way nearly as much with the Fractal (sometimes sure).

I went back and forth between Helix and AX8...I really wanted that Helix to work for me, but it just wasn't as addictive to play as the Fractal. Moving to the Axe 3 sealed the deal and I sold the Helix...although I did pick up a Stomp out of curiosity, but returned it a few weeks later.

That's just my experience. If I were regularly gigging, I would probably consider the Helix a lot more just out of the ease of replacement and form factor. But for a home player I can live with some of the quirks if I enjoy playing it more. I also really would be interested in a full powered Helix that were a little smaller (size of the Pod Go without the expression pedal maybe?). But I'd still probably end up selling it as I'd prefer playing the Fractal.

Again, all my experience. Everyone can have their own experience, doesn't bother me any!

 

[Jarick]

JARIC: I haven't used Bias in a couple years but I was impressed with it. I haven't compared with the Helix though.

Download the demo and let me know if I’m wrong that it feels better than helix lol or it’s just subjective? The sound it’s not better than helix, but try some Irs or the Celestion v30 Ir included in the demo.

Just downloaded the demo...only played with a few amps so far.

It's a cool piece of gear, I had it for the iPad with an Apogee lightning interface. Right out of the box I like the sound of the cabinets better, and I can tuner them quicker to taste (being able to drag a mic across a speaker to roll off high end, or adding in a second mic and mixing to taste). I also like the reverbs a lot more, even if I only played a couple. They are more 3D.

Reverbs are a big thing for me as I use headphones a lot. A good reverb adds so much to the sound. It adds a little squish and interest. Fractal reverbs stomp all over Helix which is one reason I like playing it more. Helix has the Strymon stuff or really old legacy reverbs that are not all that interesting. The Bias reverbs just have more depth to them.

Beyond that I think the Helix amp models seem more responsive and realistic. The Bias ones feel a little more dated if that makes sense, more like a plugin or distortion pedal. I still prefer Fractal to both.

Cool plugin for sure, I'll have to keep tinkering!

 

[MrCrossroads83]

The unit sounds good but the feel is not there specially when palm muting ( high gain). I Tried IRs and same issue..
I downloaded Bias fx 2 and the response was there! ( using same IRs as the Helix). Now im confuse, because i read bad reviews about Bias
and personally i like it more than helix only in response of pick attack and such, not that much in sound . So is this a placebo effect, personal preference or its the technology behind that makes the response better? I will be selling the Hx Stomp, is the FM3 worth it?

FM 3 is in a different ballpark compared to Helix.

Even if you write the best program codes for modeling the hardware can only translate it into sound and feel as good as the built in DSPs are capable to handle it.
It will always sound more realistic when good (and more expensive) DSPs are used.
When it comes to the price just remember that Line 6 is not selling directly or with the help of an exclusive distributor like G66 for EU but with retailers like your local music store or online shops.
There is one more hand that gets some money on the way from the company to you as a customers.
The FM 3 would be far more expensive if it would not be sold directly and as the DSPs are the most expensive parts in a modeling unit you cannot expect the same powerful DSPs in a Helix Floor as the price for it is about 500 $.
It is just not possible at this pricepoint to achieve the same level of realism.

BUT :

There are some people who do not care about the difference of the feeling and realism a modeling unit offers and just want to have a good sound.
Then the Helix might be the right unit for you.
Even with a twenty years old Line 6 POD 1 you can get some good results when recording tracks but the realism of Fractal Audio is far superior to most of the other units on the market.

 

[strabes]

Are you gigging? If not then I would just stick with Bias. However if you need a hardware unit for gigging then continue reading... Here's my background: I've used Helix on the road for >3 years. Picked up a III and FM3 a couple months ago to learn something new while on COVID lockdown.

1. Recorded sounds: Through the same IRs I don't think there is as big a difference in recorded tones of well-dialed-in equivalent amps as some claim. Helix's biggest weakness is the default settings on the amps and cabs, which are usually laughably bad. Through the same IRs, the Fractal amps are easier to get usable tones because they sound like the real amps should, whereas the HX stuff takes more work, but like I said, if you can dial them in they can sound quite similar on a recording. I do think the Fractal stuff has the edge though. It's most noticeable on the high end, where the Fractal is a little smoother and more natural sounding.
2. Feel: I think the Fractal units have a more realistic or "3D" feel to them. It's hard to explain but when playing the Fractal it really feels like I am playing an amp mic'd up somewhere out there, whereas the HX stuff just feels a little flat by comparison. Compared to the HX models through the same IRs, the Fractal amps clean up with the volume knob better and break up more accurately when you dig in. This is something that would not really come through in a blind A/B listening test, especially with gained-up-internet-metal tones that seem to dominate the modeling world. But if you play other genres this is pretty important.
3. Wet effects into the front: I rarely see this mentioned but in this area Fractal is the clear winner. A lot of people who use modeling run their wet effects after the amp+cab but if you want to recreate the "pedals into the front of a cleanish amp" thing then Fractal is the better choice.

Once COVID is over and we're touring again I will be transitioning to the III for my main rig. For me the most important variables are: 1) reliability/ruggedness, 2) consistency (so the IEM mixes are the same whether it's a short festival changeover or a full headline show), 3) size / ability to check on an airplane, and 4) tone. Helix and Fractal are pretty much tied on 1-3 and Fractal has the edge on 4. If I were gigging locally on a tight budget I would probably just use the pod go as an all-in-one rig.

For bass the Stomp is a better choice than the FM3 because it has the ability to run two amps in parallel with a crossover split.

 

[Jarick]

@strabes described exactly my thoughts much better than I could!

 

[mehegama]

Are you gigging? If not then I would just stick with Bias. However if you need a hardware unit for gigging then continue reading... Here's my background: I've used Helix on the road for >3 years. Picked up a III and FM3 a couple months ago to learn something new while on COVID lockdown.

1. Recorded sounds: Through the same IRs I don't think there is as big a difference in recorded tones of well-dialed-in equivalent amps as some claim. Helix's biggest weakness is the default settings on the amps and cabs, which are usually laughably bad. Through the same IRs, the Fractal amps are easier to get usable tones because they sound like the real amps should, whereas the HX stuff takes more work, but like I said, if you can dial them in they can sound quite similar on a recording. I do think the Fractal stuff has the edge though. It's most noticeable on the high end, where the Fractal is a little smoother and more natural sounding.
2. Feel: I think the Fractal units have a more realistic or "3D" feel to them. It's hard to explain but when playing the Fractal it really feels like I am playing an amp mic'd up somewhere out there, whereas the HX stuff just feels a little flat by comparison. Compared to the HX models through the same IRs, the Fractal amps clean up with the volume knob better and break up more accurately when you dig in. This is something that would not really come through in a blind A/B listening test, especially with gained-up-internet-metal tones that seem to dominate the modeling world. But if you play other genres this is pretty important.
3. Wet effects into the front: I rarely see this mentioned but in this area Fractal is the clear winner. A lot of people who use modeling run their wet effects after the amp+cab but if you want to recreate the "pedals into the front of a cleanish amp" thing then Fractal is the better choice.

Once COVID is over and we're touring again I will be transitioning to the III for my main rig. For me the most important variables are: 1) reliability/ruggedness, 2) consistency (so the IEM mixes are the same whether it's a short festival changeover or a full headline show), 3) size / ability to check on an airplane, and 4) tone. Helix and Fractal are pretty much tied on 1-3 and Fractal has the edge on 4. If I were gigging locally on a tight budget I would probably just use the pod go as an all-in-one rig.

For bass the Stomp is a better choice than the FM3 because it has the ability to run two amps in parallel with a crossover split.

one of the better written opinions here! Well supported and without the usual fanboyisms of "A is killing B". My take on the above is again personal preferences on different aspects. I would agree that fractal provides a better starting point, due to the better cabs as well. I will just diverge in one thing: the 3D feel thing. I have not experienced this whatsoever. Both systems response the same on stuff like pinch harmonics, palm mutes, fast alternate picking, sweeps, how it cleans when you roll the volume knob etc. In a blind test I cannot tell the difference at all. Maybe the fact that I play 99% of the time very hi gain stuff makes such comparisons more difficult. For example I never ever play with close to break up tones.

 

[Rex]

Maybe the fact that I play 99% of the time very hi gain stuff makes such comparisons more difficult. For example I never ever play with close to break up tones.

This is at the core of it, I think. The more gain you use, the less difference there is between amps/guitars/whatever. Low- and mid-gain tones are where those differences really show.

There are two sets of people who have a hard time discerning the differences in modeling: those who play at very low volume, and those who play at very high gain. If you never, ever play with close-to-breakup tones, there are differences that won't be apparent.

 

[mehegama]

Thanks. I agree with @Rex above. An amp's dynamics are generally inversely proportional to the amount of gain. So the higher gain you play, the more the amp's reaction to playing dynamics will be masked or compressed, which will make the two units seem a lot closer on higher gain tones. But just to be clear I don't think the difference between the amp modeling in the two units is that big, even on low and mid gain tones. Hard to put numbers to it but maybe like 5% percent different once they're both dialed in. I could use Helix for the rest of my career no problem. But after 3 years I wanted to try something different.

i don’t disagree. My comment goes to those that say that one is way better than the other when clearly it s not the case. The 2 platforms have different philosophies and offer slghtly different things but in terms of quality they are both in pro level.

 

[JavzMon7]

I have an HX Stomp, I love it, sounds great and does tons for the size and price point. It fits great on a board, truly a great unit. Also, it gets you Helix Native super discounted which is rad for tracking and travel with a laptop. With that said, I love the FM3. I can't call them competitors. They don't feel in the same league. FM3 gets you way more "all in one" feel. HX Stomp always feels more like a complimentary piece to me. To my ears Fractal has always had an edge in tone. You'll likely feel that the FM3 is a solution, while HX Stomp is a piece to a puzzle.

 

[Robboman]

This is at the core of it, I think. The more gain you use, the less difference there is between amps/guitars/whatever. Low- and mid-gain tones are where those differences really show.

There are two sets of people who have a hard time discerning the differences in modeling: those who play at very low volume, and those who play at very high gain. If you never, ever play with close-to-breakup tones, there are differences that won't be apparent.

This. So much this.

Honestly I think you'd need to ask the "is it worth it" question on the Helix forum and then average the responses from both forums. Or ask on TGP neutral ground. Be sure to apply nonsense filtering

 

[artzeal]

The FM3 sounds and feels so much better for how I play. But by and large, I like amps and sounds from Brownface Fenders up through Deizel VH4, and what a Carol Ann, Friedman or a Trainwreck can do. Its really in another league for this sort of thing IMO. Some months ago I tried to get an HX Stomp to work for me for several hours before I gave up on it: I really wanted to like it, I love the concept and form factor. But it was not nearly as good as the AX8 I had at the time. The attack characteristics of Line 6 products leave me cold. To me its like a fixed ADSR envelope. Whether you attack the string hard or soft or use one amp or another, this guitar or that - you get pretty much the same attack - just louder or softer. Its just not like into the amps I've had, or most other modelers where the harmonic content varies more too. If all one plays is high gain shred maybe you don't notice, but if you want a sharp attack sometimes and soft at others, or play fingerstyle, Line 6 just doesn't pull it off well enough that I can live with it. Its a deliberate choice on their part: They used to tout "enhanced picking dynamics" in their promo copy. Not my thing. The on the edge of saturation going clean or into distortion with playing dynamics is also much better with the FM3. But if high speed arpeggios is your thing: that uniformity of the Stomp might be preferred. For those that can't hear a difference: save your money and buy the Stomp. I can't hear a quality difference between a $5000 Gibxxn and what seems to me a better built and set up Agile 3000 with a boutique pickup swap: so my opinion might not be worth much. The FM3 really is worth the extra $ to me, even if all I used it for was one amp model and a few of the stellar effects. But its just my opinion, for the reasons given, and I wouldn't expect everyone whose had a chance at both of them to concur.

 

[Rex]

I can't hear a quality difference between a $5000 Gibxxn and what seems to me a better built and set up Agile 3000 with a boutique pickup swap: so my opinion might not be worth much.

I value the opinion of anyone who’s willing to publicly acknowledge that truth. My favorite “Les Paul” is a Chinese almost-knockoff that cost me $100 in a pawn shop. It plays like a dream, and even the stock pickups sound great.

When I state this publicly, the best I get is a polite “That’s nice. Glad you found something you like.” No one is willing to risk saying that a real Gibxxn might not be any better.

 

[artzeal]

And not to suggest Line 6 doesn't know exactly what they're doing. They cater to a devoted following that want the type of sonic signature their products offer. I just have other preferences. I think its useful to post about the FM3 at this point in time, because not a lot of people have had a chance to play one, it's hard to guess from videos if you can't try it yourself, if it might really be worth holding out for. I try to give a useful basis for my opinions, particularly since I tread a limited patch of sonic turf.

I might mention one area I discern the FM3 having noticeably better quality over similar products is in the cabinet modeling and whatever else is going on there with the IR processing and power amp modeling interactions. It stands out even more with high end monitoring.

 

[sarge]

in a blind test there is no way you can tell them apart through the same cab or ir. Having both platforms, i understand personal preferences, UI differences, deep editing choices, model choices etc can play a role on which platform suits someone the best. But saying sonically there is no comparison it s simply not factual.Maybe the stock cabs in fractal are easier to get a good sound with but beyond that let's not exaggerate using such bold statements. Having more options is always good.

I have a Axe III and the HX Stomp and recently did a comparison of the two directly using the same impulse responses. I was trying to decide whether to buy a Helix Floor or get on the FM3 wait list.

I ended up hopping on the FM3 waitlist.

Once dialed in, the BE with the same IR on the Helix and Axe III, I agree with you, I would not be able to tell them apart in a blind test. But the JCM 800, the Plexi amps, the Axe was much better by a pretty good margin using the exact same IR's (to my ears).

Regarding whether to sell the HX Stomp or not, given you don't use it now, then sure. I think for the money it is really hard to beat (up until the new pod go came out).

 

[TubeAmped]

I already had an HX Stomp and an Atomic Amplifire 6 when I received my FM3. I will definitely be selling both now - and NOT be looking back!