Running into difficulty organizing presets

[Stringtheorist]

I'm now in three different bands with a fourth project on the horizon. My All Access is fast running out of preset storage since I use it in Song Mode and have separate presets for many of the sounds in each song. (For example, You Oughta Know has 4 presets: 1) Synth pad 2) Clean Trem 3) Dirty Trem 4) Crunch.) At some point I can see I'm going to have to find another way to manage all the sounds I need for these different projects (or buy myself a second footcontroller). I like the simplicity of a virtual stompbox type arrangement but I simply don't have enough buttons to do all I need to do AND activate synth-sounds on my GR-33 as well (which I have to do within presets). At least not without a lot of banking up and down between songs which would be very confusing. (...and I haven't even got into the issue of how to label the different switches for different functions in each bank.)

Can anyone throw any light onto possible solutions or tricks I've maybe not considered?

 

[javajunkie]

You could use a separate load of your setup for one or more of the gigs (the ones you do least). Back up your current controller setup, program the new one, back it up. Load the one you need to work with.

 

[teejay]

Maybe you should consider getting more economy out of your presets.... For example, we do "Oughta Know" and i get all 4 sounds that you mentioned out of a single preset with the use of I/As. Of course, this preset also comes in handy for other songs too.

We have close to a couple of hundred songs in our repertoire and i can handle them all with about 15 presets. I get maximum mileage out of each and every one of my sounds but i must say that each preset utilises up to 5 I/As each.

 

[Stringtheorist]

You could use a separate load of your setup for one or more of the gigs (the ones you do least). Back up your current controller setup, program the new one, back it up. Load the one you need to work with.

I wasn't aware it was possible to "back up" my All Access setup. Do I do this with a bulk dump? How would I reload the data? Sysex Librarian?

 

[Stringtheorist]

Maybe you should consider getting more economy out of your presets.... For example, we do "Oughta Know" and i get all 4 sounds that you mentioned out of a single preset with the use of I/As. Of course, this preset also comes in handy for other songs too.

We have close to a couple of hundred songs in our repertoire and i can handle them all with about 15 presets. I get maximum mileage out of each and every one of my sounds but i must say that each preset utilises up to 5 I/As each.

I have many songs where I need a very specific sound (ie. She Sells Sanctuary clean flange sound) including presets with synth and guitar on together which means I need to set up using banks of 5 presets + 10 IAs. If I were using just IAs (no presets) I would have to make too many sacrifices and it would also mean too much tapdancing to engage all the necessary effects for each part.

Just out of curiosity, can you take me through how you perform You Oughta Know in terms of preset/effect switching (by way of example)?

 

[Dutch]

Did sound for a coverband on a wedding last friday. The guitar guy used exactly 5 presets for a total of about 50 songs ranging from U2 (that was one of the 5) to Nirvana and some disco. No, the tones weren't all carbon copies of the originals but the audience danced their asses off, belted out many a lyric and were exstatic.

I do acknowledge that that isn't for every guitarist and I would likely use some more tones myself.

Of course I'm also very good at running a PA... :lol:

 

[teejay]

Just out of curiosity, can you take me through how you perform You Oughta Know in terms of preset/effect switching (by way of example)?

Essentially it is an overdriven preset but i have a "pad" that is running in parallel that i can kick in and out with an I/A and a trem that is synced via my Tap Tempo switch assigned to a separate I/A that i can kick in and out also. I roll off my guitars volume to attenuate the gain, which cleans it up really nicely for the cleaner parts.

I understand what you mean about "song specific" presets. I do have a couple of presets that are for individual songs however with some creative assignments you can can around the "tap dancing" on a lot of songs...

Take for example your Sanctuary preset, i'd imagine it's core is a nice clean preamp sound, and then you have flange, reverb, delay and maybe EQ on top? You can assign the bypass state of all of those blocks to a single I/A so you could instantly transform a clean preset that could be used for other songs in to your Sanctuary preset with the tap of a single switch...

I do this with all of my presets which makes them all multi-purpose. You may find this kind of approach may free up a few slots for ya!

T

 

[Stringtheorist]

Take for example your Sanctuary preset, i'd imagine it's core is a nice clean preamp sound, and then you have flange, reverb, delay and maybe EQ on top? You can assign the bypass state of all of those blocks to a single I/A so you could instantly transform a clean preset that could be used for other songs in to your Sanctuary preset with the tap of a single switch...

I do this with all of my presets which makes them all multi-purpose. You may find this kind of approach may free up a few slots for ya!

T

I see your thinking. I've been avoiding changing the bypass state of more than one effect per IA because I forget which block I've assigned to which switch (ie. Filter 1,2,3 or 4?, Reverb 1 or 2?). It got really complicated. But then how would you label such a switch? That in itself becomes confusing, especially when you're using one switch to do different things. I will give the idea more thought however.

 

[javajunkie]

You could use a separate load of your setup for one or more of the gigs (the ones you do least). Back up your current controller setup, program the new one, back it up. Load the one you need to work with.

I wasn't aware it was possible to "back up" my All Access setup. Do I do this with a bulk dump? How would I reload the data? Sysex Librarian?

The instructions are on page 66 of the all access manual

 

[teejay]

I see your thinking. I've been avoiding changing the bypass state of more than one effect per IA because I forget which block I've assigned to which switch (ie. Filter 1,2,3 or 4?, Reverb 1 or 2?). It got really complicated. But then how would you label such a switch? That in itself becomes confusing, especially when you're using one switch to do different things. I will give the idea more thought however.

I don't label anything, I just know my presets back to front, but with that said i've maintained a certain "system" of sorts for about the past 15 years....

For example, i currently have 6 I/A switches available per preset that control CC#1 through 6. I generally keep similar assignments for example CC#5 always controls whatever Delay functions are required for a preset, CC#6 is always Tap Tempo. CC#1 is most often modulation whether it be Flanger, Phaser, Trem etc.. CC#2 is most often any Pitch effects, CC#3 is the least used and usually only has Chorus for cleans but occasionally toggles on more obscure blocks such as the Synth etc. CC#4 is usually reserved for my multiple switching and this most often toggles the bypass state of Gain, Delay, Reverb and EQ which effectively turns my Rhythm Preset in to a Solo Preset. I'm using the LF Jr now and this CC# is assigned as a step function on whatever preset switch is currently selected so i can toggle between rhythm and lead from the one switch negating the need to look down and tap dance..

It may seem confusing at first but you soon get to know your set up well.

 

[Stringtheorist]

I don't label anything, I just know my presets back to front, but with that said i've maintained a certain "system" of sorts for about the past 15 years....

For example, i currently have 6 I/A switches available per preset that control CC#1 through 6. I generally keep similar assignments for example CC#5 always controls whatever Delay functions are required for a preset, CC#6 is always Tap Tempo. CC#1 is most often modulation whether it be Flanger, Phaser, Trem etc.. CC#2 is most often any Pitch effects, CC#3 is the least used and usually only has Chorus for cleans but occasionally toggles on more obscure blocks such as the Synth etc. CC#4 is usually reserved for my multiple switching and this most often toggles the bypass state of Gain, Delay, Reverb and EQ which effectively turns my Rhythm Preset in to a Solo Preset. I'm using the LF Jr now and this CC# is assigned as a step function on whatever preset switch is currently selected so i can toggle between rhythm and lead from the one switch negating the need to look down and tap dance..

It may seem confusing at first but you soon get to know your set up well.

So how many basic presets do you use? Even with this arrangement don't you have to create separate footswitch presets for each change in each song? Otherwise, how do you avoid having to press several switches at once if you want to go from, say a dry heavy distortion sound to a clean chorused sound?

 

[Stringtheorist]

Let's see... Here is a current list of the functions I need to access:

Pitch 1: Detune
Pitch 2: Harmony
Flanger/Phaser/Rotary
Chorus
Drive (or Amp toggle)
Tremolo
Delay
Reverb
Filter 1: Gain boost
Filter 2: Level boost
Vol +
Vol -
Tap Tempo
Synth: Piano
Synth: Pad
Synth: Orchestra
Synth: Orch+guitar
Synth: Organ+guitar
Synth: Strings
Wah on External1

I save myself work by (for example) including both Pitch blocks and both Filters in one Axe preset (Brit). Then I activate the functions I want from the pedalboard and save it as a section of each song, effectively creating 4 or 5 sounds out of one preset. But this still means I'm using pedalboard preset memory. I can't see any way around it unless I resign myself to pushing several switches at once. :?

 

[teejay]

Okay, let's see now... sitting down? This could be a long one! :lol:

BANK 1
PRESET 1 - Dirty
Sw1 - Flanger On/Off (Jet flange, barracuda style)
Sw2 - Phaser On/Off (ala Brian May)
Sw3 - Reverb Level and Volume Boost (sweet child style)
Sw4 - Transforms rhythm to lead by kicking in Reverb, Delay 1, Preamp Gain and GEQ (conducive to soloing)
Sw5 - Kicks in Delay 2 (Dotted 8th Delay) for percussive stuff
Sw6 - Tap Tempo

PRESET 2 - Overdrive
Sw1 - Tremolo On/Off
Sw2 - Auto Wah (touch wah)
Sw3 - no function
Sw4 - Transforms rhythm to lead by kicking in Reverb level and GEQ (conducive to soloing)
Sw5 - no function
Sw6 - Tap Tempo

PRESET 3 - Chorus Clean (thin percussive funky type clean, also good for clean picking)
Sw1 - Chorus On/Off (set on by default)
Sw2 - no function
Sw3 - no function
Sw4 - turns on string pad running in parallel (plex delay and plex detune)
Sw5 - no function
Sw6 - Tap Tempo

PRESET 4 - Clean nice punchy compressed clean
Sw1 - Tremolo On/Off
Sw2 - Auto Wah (touch wah)
Sw3 - Chorus on/off
Sw4 - Boost and GEQ (conducive to soloing)
Sw5 - Delay 2 (percussive dotted 8th note delay)
Sw6 - Tap Tempo

BANK 2
PRESET 5 - Dirty Pitch Identical to preset 1
Sw1 - Flanger On/Off (fat flange)
Sw2 - Pitch On/Off (octave below)
Sw3 - Synth On/Off (square wave lead sound)
Sw4 - Transforms rhythm to lead by kicking in Reverb, Delay 1, Preamp Gain and GEQ (conducive to soloing)
Sw5 - Kicks in Delay 2 (Dotted 8th Delay) for percussive stuff
Sw6 - Tap Tempo

PRESET 6 - Vocatron format filter set to envelope
no switch functions.

PRESET 7 - Break Even
Sw1 - no function
Sw2 - no function
Sw3 - no function
Sw4 - turns on string pad running in parallel (crystals)
Sw5 - no function
Sw6 - Tap Tempo

PRESET 8 - Metal (heavier than my dirty preset)
Sw1 - no function
Sw2 - no function
Sw3 - no function
Sw4 - Transforms rhythm to lead by kicking in Reverb, Delay 1, Preamp Gain and GEQ (conducive to soloing)
Sw5 - no function
Sw6 - Tap Tempo

BANK 3
PRESET 9 - Dirty identical to preset 1. Set in this bank for convenience.
Sw1 - Flanger On/Off (Jet flange, barracuda style)
Sw2 - Phaser On/Off (ala Brian May)
Sw3 - Reverb Level and Volume Boost (sweet child style)
Sw4 - Transforms rhythm to lead by kicking in Reverb, Delay 1, Preamp Gain and GEQ (conducive to soloing)
Sw5 - Kicks in Delay 2 (Dotted 8th Delay) for percussive stuff
Sw6 - Tap Tempo

PRESET 10 -Killer Synth phat dirty saw wave
no switch functions.

PRESET 11 - Cydonia atmospheric modulation pad
Sw1 - no function
Sw2 - no function
Sw3 - no function
Sw4 - turns on clean preamp running in parallel (crystals)
Sw5 - kicks in Delay 2 set to percussive dotted 8th
Sw6 - Tap Tempo

PRESET 12 - Dirt Pad similar to preset 7 but dirtier...
Sw1 - no function
Sw2 - no function
Sw3 - no function
Sw4 - turns on string pad running in parallel (crystals)
Sw5 - no function
Sw6 - Tap Tempo

BANK 4
PRESET 13 - Dirty identical to preset 1. Set in this bank for convenience.
Sw1 - Flanger On/Off (Jet flange, barracuda style)
Sw2 - Phaser On/Off (ala Brian May)
Sw3 - Reverb Level and Volume Boost (sweet child style)
Sw4 - Transforms rhythm to lead by kicking in Reverb, Delay 1, Preamp Gain and GEQ (conducive to soloing)
Sw5 - Kicks in Delay 2 (Dotted 8th Delay) for percussive stuff
Sw6 - Tap Tempo

PRESET 14 - Rock n Roll clean rockabilly slapback style
Sw1 - no function
Sw2 - no function
Sw3 - no function
Sw4 - turns on boost and more reverb level
Sw5 - no function
Sw6 - Tap Tempo

PRESET 15 - Rock Fuzz dirty 60s overdrive
Sw1 - no function
Sw2 - no function
Sw3 - turns on fuzz overdrive (satisfaction style)
Sw4 - turns on boost and more reverb level
Sw5 - no function
Sw6 - Tap Tempo

PRESET 16 - B Goode vintage tweed (johnny b goode style0 also great for lo fi rock...
Sw1 - no function
Sw2 - no function
Sw3 - no function
Sw4 - turns on boost and more reverb level
Sw5 - no function
Sw6 - Tap Tempo

That's pretty much it. I can cover 90% of my night with the 1st 4 presets and there's plenty of presets there with available I/A switches should i need to add functionality for new tunes..

Cheers

T

 

[Stringtheorist]

Wow, Teejay. Now, I'm obviously missing something. How do you reassign your IAs like that when you change presets (since you can only input 1 CC# per FX block in the Axe I/O (Ctrl) menu)? :?

 

[Ingo]

Wow, Teejay. Now, I'm obviously missing something. How do you reassign your IAs like that when you change presets (since you can only input 1 CC# per FX block in the Axe I/O (Ctrl) menu)? :?

Not reading everything in detail, I guess he uses the Ext1..8 modifiers on the bypass knob of the effects (and not the dedicated CC#s per effect). IMHO, that's the only reasonable way to organize IAs unless you use your controller to send different CC#s per switch, depending on the (controller) preset.

 

[Stringtheorist]

Wow, Teejay. Now, I'm obviously missing something. How do you reassign your IAs like that when you change presets (since you can only input 1 CC# per FX block in the Axe I/O (Ctrl) menu)? :?

Not reading everything in detail, I guess he uses the Ext1..8 modifiers on the bypass knob of the effects (and not the dedicated CC#s per effect). IMHO, that's the only reasonable way to organize IAs unless you use your controller to send different CC#s per switch, depending on the (controller) preset.

Right, that went straight over my head. :|

Is there a relevant Wiki page on this?

 

[Mercury25]

TeeJay,
Which physical IA switches are you referring to with SW5 and SW6, since the LF Jr. only has the 4 IA's in 4 button mode?
Or am I really missing something here?

BTW, thank you so much for the detailed layout--great info for a noob!

 

[Smilzo]

I generally keep similar assignments for example CC#5 always controls whatever Delay functions are required for a preset, CC#6 is always Tap Tempo.

I use a similar approach.

IMHO, that's the only reasonable way to organize IAs unless you use your controller to send different CC#s per switch, depending on the (controller) preset.

I have a Gordius, but I tend to use global block bypass. I use 4 patches, the first CC/button is for distortion. The first 3 patches use a drive in front of amp emulation, the last one boost the amp and turn down a bit the volume. It depends on amp emulation & sound needed.

I have to tap on multiple switch sometimes, but it is a live performance and no one care. If it proves to be an impossible mission (I remember a Police song, in which I have to switch distortion, wha, modulation while changing pickup & volume) I save a preset with required setting.

Basically, I have *my own* clean, crunch & lead sounds: 3 patches, plus Police patch. 8 IA. 2^8*4(patches)*5(PU)=5120 different sound. That's all.

 

[teejay]

TeeJay,
Which physical IA switches are you referring to with SW5 and SW6, since the LF Jr. only has the 4 IA's in 4 button mode?
Or am I really missing something here?

BTW, thank you so much for the detailed layout--great info for a noob!

Okay, so i am using global CC numbers (external modifiers) rather than assigning I/As to specific blocks. It's the best way to maintain full control over everything because then you can assign external modifiers 1 through 8 to whatever parameter you want including being able to assign multiple functions to a single control number.

I am using the Liquid Foot Jr, my set up is as follows. I use 4 button mode so my bottom 4 switches are presets and the upper 4 are I/A switches and they are laid out as;

Sw1 = CC1 (ext 1)
Sw2 = CC2 (ext 2)
Sw3 = CC3 (ext 3)
Sw4 = CC5 (ext 5)
I have an external Boss FS5-U which sends CC6 (ext 6) for Tap Tempo.
I use 2 second mode on the Menu button to engage the Tuner. From memory i have assigned this to CC11
And the really cool function? I have assigned a step function for every preset so that when i stomp on the currently selected Preset Switch a second time it sends CC4 (ext 4). This is the one i use most for toggling between rhythm and lead and as you can see in Preset 1, it is toggling the state of 4 parameters simultaneously.
Single hit of the Menu button allows me to navigate Up/Down through my Banks with a second hit selecting a Bank.

Hope that clears things up a bit.

T

 

[benjam]

Thanks for all the detail teejay. I just got the LF Jr and was headed down the same path. Your posts cleared up some things for me.