Recently purchased an Ultra or Standard?

i totally agree, this is the problem that all new buyers are bothered about, it has nothing to do with extra switches an knobs.... its what's inside that counts and there is little to no argument that says it is ok for a 2000 pound piece of hard ware to be un-updatable within a few months of buying it. when i bought it it wasn't just the axe i was buying.... but the fact that it was gonna be updated too. i too would be quite happy to pay for those updates, an the fact that they were updatable was part of the marketing strategy too, so i don't quite understand how people can not understand why new buyers are upset about this! guess what, i don't have the latest phone... but it doesn't matter because i can run the latest software on it!!!!!!
 
Wolfy said:
So who bought the couple of units that the power users sold for full retail price in the last few weeks? They are the ones with a right to complain because they were taken advantage of by preferred users who knew their Axes would be depreciating immediately after sale.
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Anyone who bought a unit on the promise of, reputation and MASSIVE marketing streak on upgrades and future improvements who have lost the upgrade route to new software 1 generation in has a right to complain. I got 1 free upgrade for life to v 11 in the month I have owned mine. Fractal have dined out on the marketing trick of upgrade and support (even when I bought mine last month) and then ditched their hardware immediately with the new Gen. That is pretty underhanded if you ask me. Like I said I don't care at all that I missed the hardware boat by such a small margin, such is life. I care MASSIVELY that i missed the software boat as that was one of the key selling points and to me seems like a reasonable expectation that it is kept standard by at least one gen.
 
Raven said:
In my case I fully expect new hardware to be released & I have no problem with it at all, I just don't think it's right that the soft content (i.e. modelling algorithms) should be exclusive to the new top of the line hardware given how expensive these pieces of kit are in the first place. I personally don't expect anything for free either, I'd be completely happy to purchase an upgrade for my Ultra that allows me to use the new G2 modelling content, it's inevitable that technology will depreciate & you expect to have to purchase upgrades every now & then in order to keep it current. It does sadly look as though the Ultra will probably be freezed at it currently stands now though. If Firmware 11 only contains a much needed poweramp tweak, then that suggests to me that no further content for it will follow. ....who knows though, Cliff may surprise us yet with that! Also, there's no cost effective option like there used to be with the Standard anymore, so maybe there'll be some sort of trade-in scheme so that they can sell used Ultras from the factory as their new cost-effective option.

Again, I'm really happy for Fractal with the release of the Axe II & I'm glad they've done it, I'm just worried (with sayings like 'now it's history' showing on official marketing) that our perfectly good shiny new Ultras that should have plenty of years of life in them are simply going to be dropped & left to stagnate.
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Cliff just added what he could to the Ultra regarding the improved modelling, but he has taken that platform about as far as it can go. The new Amp modeling would bring an Ultra pretty much to its knees. You wouldn't be able to run 2 amp models, that is for sure.
From what I understand, the Ultra is pretty much, full (like the standard). This was commented by Cliff a while back. I can find the quote. So regardless of the II, the Ultra would be what it is.
 
This isn't a laptop or an iPhone with the new OS dogging on it (I have one of those). Its a high end audio processing unit. it doesn't suddenly suck b/c something newer was announced, that you can't even order yet.
It still does everything you bought it for and it just got another free firmware upgrade.
 
Wolfy said:
So who bought the couple of units that the power users sold for full retail price in the last few weeks? They are the ones with a right to complain because they were taken advantage of by preferred users who knew their Axes would be depreciating immediately after sale.
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Yes, insider trading is unethical & also illegal. Everybody's business should be treated equally, there shouldn't be an exclusive club based on how long you spend frequenting a forum.
 
javajunkie said:
Cliff just added what he could to the Ultra regarding the improved modelling, but he has taken that platform about as far as it can go. The new Amp modeling would bring an Ultra pretty much to its knees. You wouldn't be able to run 2 amp models, that is for sure.
From what I understand, the Ultra is pretty much, full (like the standard). This was commented by Cliff a while back. I can find the quote. So regardless of the II, the Ultra would be what it is.
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When I bought mine in December I was sold up to the Ultra as I was told that the Standard had pretty much reached capacity & that the Ultra had tons of space & a more future proof upgrade path. Someone was definitely lying at some point.
 
FPFL said:
This isn't a laptop or an iPhone with the new OS dogging on it (I have one of those). Its a high end audio processing unit. it doesn't suddenly suck b/c something newer was announced, that you can't even order yet.
It still does everything you bought it for and it just got another free firmware upgrade.
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Yes it is, it's a very expensive high end audio processing unit which can't survive one hardware generation with the software. You are right it's not an iPhone and my 3gs iPhone isn't dogging on the latest iOs and runs every app from the app store perfectly fine. Hmmm, me thinks this is a mistake from Fractal I think, Confidence in purchase will go down in a year or 2 in a way it would never have with an upgrade path for previous generation.
 
insider trading of publicly traded stocks in certain nations is a far cry from buying used audio gear.

the reality is a lot of people have wanted AFs for months and never been able to get one.
these "depreciated" units are what countless pros are recording and touring with right now, so the units are obviously garbage as the PDF for something newer is out.
You can jam pretty hard with a PDF can't you?

This sour grapes stuff is childish. Even people who have the money and want the AF:II are likely going to be waiting for months for one, myself included. That doesn't seem to mean anything to any of you guys. Time isn't free in either direction.
 
Raven said:
Yes, insider trading is unethical & also illegal. Everybody's business should be treated equally, there shouldn't be an exclusive club based on how long you spend frequenting a forum.
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Insider trading is the trading of stocks/shares/bonds etc, not really electrical equipment.

You would have a difficult legal case to proceed with should you want to get litigious.

This next statement is irrelevant but I found it interesting when I learned it:
Insider trading isn't illegal everywhere.
For instance in russia, they don't call it insider trading, but rather just 'trading'- at least until 2010 it was- I heard about new laws coming in.
It is normal business practice in some places.
 
SketchesOfSilence said:
Yes it is, it's a very expensive high end audio processing unit which can't survive one hardware generation with the software. You are right it's not an iPhone and my 3gs iPhone isn't dogging on the latest iOs and runs every app from the app store perfectly fine. Hmmm, me thinks this is a mistake from Fractal I think, Confidence in purchase will go down in a year or 2 in a way it would never have with an upgrade path for previous generation.
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Hehe, yeh, I've had my £400 iphone 3GS for 2 years & it runs all the latest software perfectly & will continue to do so (I'll get the new OS for free in 1 months time). Yet my £2500 Axe-FX 'matured' & was left behind within 5 months. These derogatory Apple comparisons that people keep making make no sense at all.
 
Well I bougt an Ultra about six months ago after reading about all the support and new firmware releases you get... Well I got only minor bug fixes for firmware and mostly for the new MFC they are selling that I dont have. I am all for new product but most all companies start selling their old technology at discounted prices before introducing something new. And I'm sure with the ultra 2 at only $200 more this could have been done. This is how you don't alienate your customers because you feel you got a bargin if its discontinued and you get it at a reduced price..
This machine is only as good as its software and it sounds like support is being dropped. The ultra has some great software but just like the video game business once software development stops the system dies..... Like I said even game systems old hardware are sold at reduced rates before new is released..... the hype from the users is what sell a system anyway so why not at least reward them in this way. I guess you can tell that this has left a bad taste in my mouth.
 
FPFL said:
insider trading of publicly traded stocks in certain nations is a far cry from buying used audio gear.

the reality is a lot of people have wanted AFs for months and never been able to get one.
these "depreciated" units are what countless pros are recording and touring with right now, so the units are obviously garbage as the PDF for something newer is out.
You can jam pretty hard with a PDF can't you?

This sour grapes stuff is childish. Even people who have the money and want the AF:II are likely going to be waiting for months for one, myself included. That doesn't seem to mean anything to any of you guys. Time isn't free in either direction.
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Ok, cry sour grapes if you like but the upgrade path wasn't such a marketing tool and an important thing for me I wouldn't be complaining. Hell I wouldn't be complaining if the Axe-II shipped with a built in kick ass stereo power amp and free MFC-101. The point is I bought into and for a product which would evolve and that seems to have halted 1 month after I got it. Oh and mine was new not used. I am a software engineer by trade and intrinsically understand that things become outdated/deprecated but this is a little hard to take, at least offering some of the new tech to be used in a limited way would be appreciated. This thing has twice the power, well I suspect it is easily possible to make the Ultra run a simple Amp->Cab set-up from the new set (my main usage of the unit) or effects on their own without amp or cab modelling as slight upgrade compensation (please note I do understand this is an over simplification but comparing the specs of the old versus new units if the ultra couldn't run simple chains of the II then the II is already also at it's limit). If they did that, I'd happilly shut up and be grateful.
 
If he started dropping prices before the announcement everyone who bought one two weeks before that would have complained and cried foul.

As for the trade in/up program he would have sell the 'refurbished' AxeFX's at a significantly reduced price which would mean credit towards a new one would be pretty poor. You're better off putting it up on e-Bay right now and selling it yourself.
 
FPFL said:
the reality is a lot of people have wanted AFs for months and never been able to get one.
these "depreciated" units are what countless pros are recording and touring with right now, so the units are obviously garbage as the PDF for something newer is out.
You can jam pretty hard with a PDF can't you?

This sour grapes stuff is childish. Even people who have the money and want the AF:II are likely going to be waiting for months for one, myself included. That doesn't seem to mean anything to any of you guys. Time isn't free in either direction.
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+1.
I'm pretty sure you are going to see Ultra's in touring rigs for a few years to come.

Seems to me it is the hobby-set that are the most bent out of shape.
 
shasha said:
If he started dropping prices before the announcement everyone who bought one two weeks before that would have complained and cried foul.

As for the trade in/up program he would have sell the 'refurbished' AxeFX's at a significantly reduced price which would mean credit towards a new one would be pretty poor. You're better off putting it up on e-Bay right now and selling it yourself.
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Please read what I have written and see that is not my complaint. I have no problem with paying full price for the old unit one month before. I have a problem with the software divergence.
 
I don't think people are airing sour grapes, it seems to me that there's 2 camps here: the old users who are long-time forum residents that have had a good few years of use out of their machines (& some of whom got tipped off to sell their units ahead of time) & then there's the new users who bought their machine recently, thinking they were buying a product that ran an upgradable software platform, only to find out that they're machines are excluded from future updates. Surely you can understand why people would be slightly disappointed.
 
Like I said they sould have started reducing prices on old hardware before a new release... Its the way things are done.
 
well i don't think it is sour grapes, you cant blame people who spent a lot of time and money on something taking everything into account on weather or not to go digital, to then find out that, thats all folks within a couple of months... what kind of sour grapes is that exactly. i do understand the problem for cliff and the gang, and also admire the products they have come up with, but a roomer about a product for those who would have been bothered would have done no harm. that way if you weren't bothered you would have gone ahead with the ultra, if you were you could of held off a little, the fact remains that for new buyers... the part of the deal that said it had still more potential an oncoming improvements has not held. one more thing and i make no apologies for this, the advert at g66 that said your axe is history even when you've only just sold them to people claiming there updatable is just not on.
 
Or they should give current users a discount when purchasing new equipment and I'm sure in the beginning there will be enough demand that it won't happen :(
 
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