Recently got my first AxeFX-XL, any reason why most presets are "dark" sounding? Is this normal?

When you have the AXE FX new or certainly when bought second hand the following is (to me!) best practice:

1. Have a FULL system RESET and clear all banks and presets (make a clean AXE FX)
-> In this case you don't have the problems of previous owners in global or heavy tweaked stuff etc..
-> Have all things disconnected from your AXE FX and load the newest Firmware and presets

2. The sound of the USED PRESET DEPENDS HEAVILY on what you use the preset for (or for which the preset is made)

a. With your own POWER amp and Cabinet (No IR used, advised to have
b. FOH or home studio monitors (Very very depending on which CAB and IR used)

AND
c. Playing soft volume at home OR rehearsel or gig volume
-> The presets dailed in with low volume will sound very bassy & harsh highs

3. Start with your favorite AMP and CAB (similar of what you are used to play with) and without all kind of
-> As most probably you are not familiar with the AXE FX don't start with loads of stuff, but KEEP IT SIMPLE
-> only have amp, cab and reverb

4. In case you do not play with your own amp or cabinet make sure you have a good walk trough of the IR's and try first a lot of IR's to match your own taste as IR's is one of the most sound scaping things as it's NOT THE SAME as your own cab.
-> An IR = like having a cabinet recorded with a mic and the position of the microphone or the microphone used is vital to the sound of the IR and this is very very tastlike sensitive.

5. Put in a LOOPER and record one piece of rythm and let it play all the time
-> Cut the low frequency with bass to taste (as most amps have them set to 10)
-> adjust MV, gain, treble, mid & bass to taste

6. Maybe do 4 & 5 again as your ears have adjusted already to the choosen cab & IR

Now you should have a basic sound set up properly. If this is already NOT working for you then either something is wring in your SYSTEM or RIG setup. Or you should start again with another AMP, (CAB) IR

Only after this you should start tweaking

For example: The CAB BLOCK

- Pre- amp type
- Motor Drive
- Saturation
- Drive

Even bass, mid, treble bit then I normaly start looking for another IR
upload_2017-7-9_14-24-21.png



AMP BLOCK

upload_2017-7-9_14-28-20.png

upload_2017-7-9_14-29-0.png

For all these TWEAKINGS there are some manuals to be found online made by @yek & friends and also read all the tweaking tips made by CLIFF.

But my tip is really: tweaking is ONLY after you have your normal sound in place and should be more a feeling and final sound thing to taste.

And maybe you really do not like to hear a guitar via studio monitors or FRFR as this is WAY DIFFERENT as sound trough cabinet (in the room sound). I had to get used to it as I played mainly over 2x12 or 4x12 cabinet very loud and that is way different then FRFR or FOH.

I have included a Marshall Plexi 50 WATT JUMP example preset which is one of my favorites these day's but IS tweaked a little to be working with the reverb, delay and multidelay as I play LOW VOLUME at home through KRK 6SE monitors and used a pretty mid-dark guitar. So it should not be dark. If it is, then FIND and AXE FX dude or girl nearby or let it check or check you system, cables, rig, gear, etc... as it;s CERTAINLY not the AXE FX. It's not for nothing that more and more big artists use the AXE FX ;)

Good luck with your search & quest for SOUND & TONE ( and read a lot about IR's, AXE FX manuals, tips & tricks).

& Have FUN!

Kind regards,

Musicman0001
 

Attachments

  • Plexi 50W Jump PRESET BUNDLE.syx
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musicman0001 said:
When you have the AXE FX new or certainly when bought second hand the following is (to me!) best practice:

1. Have a FULL system RESET and clear all banks and presets (make a clean AXE FX)
-> In this case you don't have the problems of previous owners in global or heavy tweaked stuff etc..
-> Have all things disconnected from your AXE FX and load the newest Firmware and presets
Click to expand...

Great post but waaaaay to much info for noobies.
 
lqdsnddist said:
Attitudes like this are exactly why I've also said the Axe shouldn't include any presets, just a blank slate.

People seem to feel that because its $2k its supposed to give them amazing tone without them having to do more than just press a button. They'd probably like a side of talent with it too lol.

Look at most Mesa Boogie amps, you can spend $2k on one of those and does it sound amazing out of the box ? Heck no, most people find it sounds pretty bad. You need to learn the amp and dial in the tones to make it sound great. I'm sure plenty of people have returned them after 20 minutes though because they didn't sound like JP did in a video.....



Also for what its worth, there have been plenty of people who have claimed the newer FW's are "too brite" and "harsh", so for every "dark" perception there is someone out there who feels the opposite. Its just like food or anything, one mans spicey is another mans bland


Given it sounds like you know your stuff with regards to live sound, and making things sound, at least subjectively to you, "good". It should be no problem at all for you to go through and tweak a few presets into something far superior than what the folks at Fractal included.

Your of course also more than welcome to save those edited banks and upload them on the forum, sharing what is a "useable" tone with the community here. I'm sure folks will be very appreciative as a whole, HOWEVER, I highly doubt every user is going to say they sound ideal, no doubt some folks will say they liked the stock preset sound better.

which is fine, because again, the whole reason we have these tone shaping tools is because we are all different. The Axe isn't a preset box, thank god.

Cliff could of designed a unit with no editable settings, just one knob that scrolls through a number of fixed preset tones. Take it or leave it, have the same sound as anyone else. A true one-hit wonder kit.
Click to expand...

I certainly appreciate your input here. Let me say that I don't expect perfection out of the box, but for $2K, I'm just surprised that its' starting point is such an extreme side of the tonal fence. Let's say on a 0-10 scale, with 0 being overly dark, and 10 being overly bright, we're starting near the 0 on the AxeFX. That concept is something by which I'm just surprised. At this price point having such an extreme starting point, that may not tailor to a more "middle of the road" offering?

Mesa Amps, agree...most people don't think they sound good. You can spend hours dialing in a sound, which even at best is not worth the price point (of course this is my opinion), or you can buy a well built amp that has versatility and starting points that tailor to a wide variety of tonality. I've tried many Mesa amps and just don't understand the hype. I guess folks expect the same I expected out of the AxeFX. A great sound out of the box for such a high price point.

I would call myself knowledgeable in live sound yes, but I am also not a huge fan of "tweaking". I like to invest in good gear that sounds good right out of the box, or at least allows you a good starting point for which to be begin adjustments. In my experience, a good musician, with good sound, is easy to send through a good PA, and achieve a good mix with only minor tweaking. When the musician is not very talented, or the gear they provide is less than adequate in regards to tonality for sitting well in a mix, it becomes that much more difficult to work them in a mix. Experience helps this, but you can't bake a good food without good ingredients. Does investing more in equipment guarantee a better sound? Not always, but it's more common than not that better equipment yields a better sound. Again, no knock on the Axe, because I have heard many good examples of the settings, I'm just surprised that when you walk into such a complex machine, the starting point by which you begin to learn its' capabilities, is just so far off to the extreme of being dark sounding.

As many have suggested, I will start without presets, and build up from there. I have not experimented with this yet, so hopefully I achieve a different result, and hopefully I don't discover that the inherent nature of the unit overall is "dark" sounding.

I do appreciate your input.
 
Callan said:
Are you running your speakers at gig volume?
I find lots of presets tend to wake up once you get a bit of volume behind them.

Also a great live tone that cuts through the mix might be a horrible tone playing at home alone at low volume, so which group should the factory presets cater for?
Click to expand...

I do run at gig volume for reference of tonality, not bedroom volume. The only issue with this statement is that the tonality should not change drastically with an increase of volume leaving the unit into a reference speaker or mixing console. If that is the design of the unit, it's a big issue for live sound, and a design flaw. Leaving the unit and hitting a mixing console or any other receiving unit (powered speaker/reference monitor/recording preamp/etc) at line-level should exhibit the same tonality at any volume there after, otherwise that implies that there is a (above) line level signal that is needed for "a better" sound. Once it hits the console or reference point at line level, that should be it. It should sound good, or as designed based on the creation of the sound, from there.
 
REDD said:
Some amps you have to turn the presence up quite a bit on them. Check and make sure the previous owner didn't have the main out global EQ's cut in the upper range. I don't use factory cabs at all, maybe get some new ones or shoot your own Ir's.
Click to expand...

I did check this...that was my first thought but it was flat. This was also after a reboot.

Again, I'm new to this...what is an "IR"?
 
The Last Romantic said:
Some food for thought: in the limited and glorious time in which I owned a PRS Custom 22, the Axe Fx presets sounded absolutely perfect, no tweaks needed.

With my Ibanez, however, it's mud city until I tweak things extensively, no exceptions.

So I agree with the sentiment that the guitar you're using makes a huge difference.
Click to expand...
I also agree with that as well, however I'm using a wide variety of guitars, and still notice the same "dark" tonality.
 
JCBitB said:
I never touch presets, and I gave up on axechange the first month that I owned the ultra nearly 8 years ago... In fact when I save a patch and then switch guitars, it usually requires a few tweaks. The axe is crazy that way, it's one of the reasons I love my axe (and probably why I love amps in the axe that I don't care for in real life experiences) because the guitar makes sooooo much more difference.

Play loud and start with amp block + cab block. Tour the IR's with minimal amp adjustments, then when you've found one that's really alive and giving up the goods, go tour the amps and tweak more in that block. The IR is as important as the amp in the axe, which most head+cab guys aren't used to. It has a lot to do with the fact that the micing choice and technique is baked in.

I was serious about the bass cut too, ever since q7-8 came out I rarely play without it engaged... The later quantum fw's have oomph and body seemingly coming from the soul or dna of the amp now. Lowering the bottom certainly won't brighten the amp, but in my experience it opens up and uncovers the rest. I do also give a really slight bump on 1k and 2k sliders and then a pretty deep cut after 7-8k if it's any more gain then say a classic rock tone. These aren't necessarily instructions for you to follow, but just acknowledging that a little bit of tweaking will get where you want. I've heard more bright axe patches than dark ones...
Click to expand...

Do the new presets come with the newer firmware or is that another download that I need to do?
 
musicman0001 said:
When you have the AXE FX new or certainly when bought second hand the following is (to me!) best practice:

1. Have a FULL system RESET and clear all banks and presets (make a clean AXE FX)
-> In this case you don't have the problems of previous owners in global or heavy tweaked stuff etc..
-> Have all things disconnected from your AXE FX and load the newest Firmware and presets

2. The sound of the USED PRESET DEPENDS HEAVILY on what you use the preset for (or for which the preset is made)

a. With your own POWER amp and Cabinet (No IR used, advised to have
b. FOH or home studio monitors (Very very depending on which CAB and IR used)

AND
c. Playing soft volume at home OR rehearsel or gig volume
-> The presets dailed in with low volume will sound very bassy & harsh highs

3. Start with your favorite AMP and CAB (similar of what you are used to play with) and without all kind of
-> As most probably you are not familiar with the AXE FX don't start with loads of stuff, but KEEP IT SIMPLE
-> only have amp, cab and reverb

4. In case you do not play with your own amp or cabinet make sure you have a good walk trough of the IR's and try first a lot of IR's to match your own taste as IR's is one of the most sound scaping things as it's NOT THE SAME as your own cab.
-> An IR = like having a cabinet recorded with a mic and the position of the microphone or the microphone used is vital to the sound of the IR and this is very very tastlike sensitive.

5. Put in a LOOPER and record one piece of rythm and let it play all the time
-> Cut the low frequency with bass to taste (as most amps have them set to 10)
-> adjust MV, gain, treble, mid & bass to taste

6. Maybe do 4 & 5 again as your ears have adjusted already to the choosen cab & IR

Now you should have a basic sound set up properly. If this is already NOT working for you then either something is wring in your SYSTEM or RIG setup. Or you should start again with another AMP, (CAB) IR

Only after this you should start tweaking

For example: The CAB BLOCK

- Pre- amp type
- Motor Drive
- Saturation
- Drive

Even bass, mid, treble bit then I normaly start looking for another IR
View attachment 40780



AMP BLOCK

View attachment 40781

View attachment 40782

For all these TWEAKINGS there are some manuals to be found online made by @yek & friends and also read all the tweaking tips made by CLIFF.

But my tip is really: tweaking is ONLY after you have your normal sound in place and should be more a feeling and final sound thing to taste.

And maybe you really do not like to hear a guitar via studio monitors or FRFR as this is WAY DIFFERENT as sound trough cabinet (in the room sound). I had to get used to it as I played mainly over 2x12 or 4x12 cabinet very loud and that is way different then FRFR or FOH.

I have included a Marshall Plexi 50 WATT JUMP example preset which is one of my favorites these day's but IS tweaked a little to be working with the reverb, delay and multidelay as I play LOW VOLUME at home through KRK 6SE monitors and used a pretty mid-dark guitar. So it should not be dark. If it is, then FIND and AXE FX dude or girl nearby or let it check or check you system, cables, rig, gear, etc... as it;s CERTAINLY not the AXE FX. It's not for nothing that more and more big artists use the AXE FX ;)

Good luck with your search & quest for SOUND & TONE ( and read a lot about IR's, AXE FX manuals, tips & tricks).

& Have FUN!

Kind regards,

Musicman0001
Click to expand...

Can't thank you enough for this. This will be a great guide to starting over!
 
SinglecutGuy said:
I did check this...that was my first thought but it was flat. This was also after a reboot.

Again, I'm new to this...what is an "IR"?
Click to expand...

An Ir is an impulse response of a speaker. Its basically your cab block or what you put in your cab block. You can make your own using the Axe Fx or buy aftermarket/non-factory installed ones. It's one of the biggest factors of your tone in my opinion and in the opinion of a lot of others here. Good luck and have fun!
 
FWIW, the factory cab IRs tend to be mostly too dark for my tastes out of the box. It's kind of surprising, TBH. There are only a handful that I like. I'm not even super picky (IMHO). They can be adjusted (see the @Danny Danzi vid on the cab block) or swapped and aside from levels the cab block is my #1 tweak to something.

I'm not with the preset haters, though. People love the @fremen and @Singtall preset packs and are willing to pay for them. I have learned a lot from both sets and typically just a cab change or high cut/low cut adjustment is all it takes to personalize one. A lot of the factory presets are crazy awesome.

I know you are probably stoked to get going but: I'd fully reset any unit I bought used and work out my monitoring/rig setup as a starting point before diving into a high end unit. And despite what I said about the factory cabs, once you find your faves you do not HAVE to go insane on external IRs.

You'll get it going. Just because the unit is $2K does not mean it is going to do all the work for you. It's an entire virtual warehouse of quality gear.
 
SinglecutGuy said:
I do run at gig volume for reference of tonality, not bedroom volume. The only issue with this statement is that the tonality should not change drastically with an increase of volume leaving the unit into a reference speaker or mixing console. If that is the design of the unit, it's a big issue for live sound, and a design flaw. Leaving the unit and hitting a mixing console or any other receiving unit (powered speaker/reference monitor/recording preamp/etc) at line-level should exhibit the same tonality at any volume there after, otherwise that implies that there is a (above) line level signal that is needed for "a better" sound. Once it hits the console or reference point at line level, that should be it. It should sound good, or as designed based on the creation of the sound, from there.
Click to expand...
no, Fletcher Munson applies at any volume....irregardless of unit or speaker.
 
Sorry to say it but your going to have to dig in. You'll need a good knowledge of your gear, surroundings and how to get to where you want to be the get the most out of the Axe. If you don't have that knowledge then you'll need patience and the willingness to take time to pick things up.
It's taken me a year to be comfortable with making basic presets and finding the right IRs for my tastes.

Your problem IS the IR selection though I'm certain of it and you can change that by just rotating the big knob which on the edit page of the cab block.

If you have 85/15 pickups in your PRS and tell me what kinda sound you want maybe I can knock something simple together for you.
 
I don't think the Axe in general,...comes far away from "usable tone" at all. I have a strat, tele, les paul, prs. I have a Silverface Deluxe Reverb, 3rd Power British Dream with a Vox and a Plexi based channel, Mesa Mark I original, Mesa Mark 5 25, and a Supro Dual Tone.
I can use any of my guitars, start a new preset on the Axe > Load an corresponding amp. The default Axe Settings will be very equivalent to the analog amps with their knobs around 5. Then, I could actually hop over to my analog amp...dial it in the way I want. Hop back to the Axe....only adjust basic treble, mid, bass, gain, master volume, low cut sometimes. No graphic eq or eq block ....just the amp equivalent tone stack adjustments.

I don't have to have my tube amps for reference either...that was just to show I can get the same tones without using any deep parameters.

My 3rd Power amp is really really dark sounding at low volumes. Once it's volume is > bedroom <= drummer...it sounds great tho.

On another note, I can load nearly any Amp Block thats say a Fender, Vox, Marshall, or Dizzy without even touching a knob it is a good base/starting tone for me. Sure, I'll adjust the basic tone stack to get Gig level polish on it. I've got decent monitoring and decent treatment in my room.

Preference bias: Late 60s rock, 70s rock, 80s hair metal, Metallica ish tones, 90s grunge, Reggae, blues, jazz, surf, punk pop punk
 
My experience is much like that Larry Mitchell video/recording in that the amp models sound just like the real thing. And without a ton of effort.

I just treat the amplifiers like a real amplifier adjusting input, bass, mids, treb, bright switch, presence, deapth, master volume and for efx just like a real peddleboard/rack but better. To quote Cliff, you wouldn't just walk up to an amplifier in a music store and leave the knobs for the previous guy had set them would you?

Therefore (as others have suggested) I suspect that something more "global" ie the global EQ, a power amp, a guitar cable, etc.

BTW - Not understanding IRs can be very problematic. It's a huge part of the sound. Have you tried direct to a "real" guitar cab?

Too many artists both big and small, Pro and Am are able to get more than viable toanz.
 
I find a lot of the presets dark, muffled, and unusable out of the box. I can tweak them to get them where I want, but don't see the point in the effort.

For new people, load an amp and load a cab. Turn BMTP knobs to get balance you're looking for. Swap cabs for different character.

The presets really do sound dark with my humbucking guitars. Maybe there should be a set of 10-20 presets for low-output/single-coil guitars, and a set for high output/humbuckers.

Then the rest can be used as guidelines and examples for routing and effects tweaking.
 
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