Recently got my first AxeFX-XL, any reason why most presets are "dark" sounding? Is this normal?

SinglecutGuy

Inspired
I apologize if this is a simple answer/fix, but I'm new to the world of digital modeling preamps. I have an AxeFX-XL and MFC101 MKII, and while I love everything about the options, I find myself having to go into a GEQ for almost any preset and bump up the midrange and high end (1K to 4K area) to get it to sound "clear". I have this problem no matter how I hook it up. I've tried the headphone jack into Shure SE325 ear buds, directly out of the XLR output into a Yamaha TF series mixer with flat EQ, into powered PA speakers (I've used EV EKX, and JBL PRX), and I've also just tried going directly out the back into a powered floor monitor with flat EQ. I've used this live a few times now, and I always find myself either drastically altering the EQ on the channel of the board to get it to cut through a mix, or going in and drastically tweaking the amp settings.

It just seems like all the presents sound extremely dark, and all need significant tweaking to get them to cut through a mix. Is this normal? Has anyone else experienced this issue, and if so, what did you do to rectify? I've got a few presets now that I've worked on, and it just seems like I have to tweak just to get it sound clear, and it may or may not depart from the original sound by just trying to get it to sound "good".

Is there something in the settings that will fix this other than EQ? Any help or advice would be appreciated. It just seems like all of the reviews and demos I see of the AxeFX models, have amazing tonality, and what I have here just sounds rather flat and dark.

I guess I was just under the impression that these were a plug and play, and that the presets would sound like the amps directly from the start, directly into a board/powered speaker. What am I doing wrong?
 
try the low cut, and then check out the "bright" knob. Also, what kind of tones are you going for?
 
You probably just have a dark sounding guitar. My Schecter C-1 sounds dark with the factory presets, my tele sounds too bright.
 
Your situation is not uncommon. Lots of people jump into the Fractal world with a few preconceived notions, and that's ok. The folks here can get you on track.

The presets are merely demonstrations of the overall functionality of the unit. They're created with certain guitars with certain pickups et cetera and aren't meant to be one-size-fits-all, just a look into the possibilities, which are vast. The most common advice you'll hear is to create presets from scratch. You could also look at how the presets are constructed and tailor them to your needs - what speakers you're playing through (studio monitors, FRFR powered wedges, through a power amp and guitar cabs, etc.), what kind guitars you're using, their characteristics, your paying style, and so on.

You say that you have an XL. XL+ is the latest, so if you got yours pre-owned, you should consider updating to the latest firmware and loading a fresh copy of updated (as of this past week in fact) factory presets. Then proceed to building your own presets and playing through the factory presets.

Oh and welcome!
 
Adjust it til it sounds good, and if it sounds good, then it is good

Presents are just a generic starting point, what the person who made the preset thinks sounds good, to their taste, their guitar etc. I've had presents that sound dark, that sound too bright, with way too much reverb, with too little gain, with too much gain etc.

The whole reason there are so many knobs and parameters is that they are meant to be adjusted. Same reason they put a bass, treble, mids etc on an amp.
 
I would say half if not most people find this.
I found the same. Truth is they were made by someone eles with different gear in a different room with a different objective.
The best thing to do would be to pick something in the ball park of what you want to mess with then flick through the cab block IRs.
Eventually over time you'll find a couple of IRs that will end up being your go to IRs and then from there the world is your oyster.
 
You probably just have a dark sounding guitar. My Schecter C-1 sounds dark with the factory presets, my tele sounds too bright.

I use a Gibson Les Paul, PRS Custom 24, PRS Custom 22, PRS NF3, and all of them sound this way. It's definitely not the guitar(s).

Your situation is not uncommon. Lots of people jump into the Fractal world with a few preconceived notions, and that's ok. The folks here can get you on track.

The presets are merely demonstrations of the overall functionality of the unit. They're created with certain guitars with certain pickups et cetera and aren't meant to be one-size-fits-all, just a look into the possibilities, which are vast. The most common advice you'll hear is to create presets from scratch. You could also look at how the presets are constructed and tailor them to your needs - what speakers you're playing through (studio monitors, FRFR powered wedges, through a power amp and guitar cabs, etc.), what kind guitars you're using, their characteristics, your paying style, and so on.

You say that you have an XL. XL+ is the latest, so if you got yours pre-owned, you should consider updating to the latest firmware and loading a fresh copy of updated (as of this past week in fact) factory presets. Then proceed to building your own presets and playing through the factory presets.

Oh and welcome!

I do appreciate your input!

Before posting, I upgraded to the latest firmware, and wiped the original owner's presets. We're fresh here, all with Quantum 8.02.

Really what I'm going for isn't anything specific. I'm not after one person's tone, or one style. I play in a cover band, and was looking for something to cover a wide range of tones, and offer simplicity with my rig. The Axe seems like the right tool for the job. What I'm seeing is that overall, the settings and presets have a "dark" nature to them, almost to the point where they are sterile sounding. I mean that with all respect to the owners and designers. But I'm just very surprised to see the "starting point" being so extremely and remotely far from "usable" tones. I sell musical instruments and pro audio systems for a living. I own a lot of gear, and have sold a lot of gear. I play live regularly, and run sound for many bands. I don't say that to brag or bolster, I say that with a sense of confidence that I'm a professional in the field of gear and sound, and the overall feel of the Axe is extremely "dark", and I just don't understand why.

I can not see anyone purchasing a brand new AxeFx, and going right to gig with any of the presets, without some serious EQ'ing. What I'm trying to understand is if there is something I need to be doing on a Global setting, that may yield a better result. I've used digital modelers before that had output settings for direct to a board, into an amp, and others, that would effect the output based on application. I didn't know if there was something of this nature that was available in the AxeFX to better ease my time with getting usable tones and settings.
 
I would say half if not most people find this.
I found the same. Truth is they were made by someone eles with different gear in a different room with a different objective.
The best thing to do would be to pick something in the ball park of what you want to mess with then flick through the cab block IRs.
Eventually over time you'll find a couple of IRs that will end up being your go to IRs and then from there the world is your oyster.

That's kind of shocking for a unit that sells for over $2K new, is it not? As mentioned in my 2nd post, I run sound for many bands, as well as playing in a few regularly. There are fundamental frequencies that inherent to any instrument sitting well in a mix, for each respective style of music. There are common tonalities that "sit better in a mix" than others, and are crucial for a good live sound. Of course tastes will vary, but nothing from the starting point on the AxeFX is anywhere near that type of usuable tone, and that's where I'm left thinking I've done something wrong.

If a throw a Marshall 800 into a Vintage 30 cab, I know how that will sound. I do the same on the Axe, and it's not even in the realm of close. I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.
 
I would say half if not most people find this.
I found the same. Truth is they were made by someone eles with different gear in a different room with a different objective.
The best thing to do would be to pick something in the ball park of what you want to mess with then flick through the cab block IRs.
Eventually over time you'll find a couple of IRs that will end up being your go to IRs and then from there the world is your oyster.
Can you elaborate a little more on the cab block IR's?
 
I have a PRS SE 22 with Tremonti pickups and a PRS custom 24 with 85/15 and a Charvel with Seymour Duncan JB and 59 pickups.
I mainly like cab IR's #58 and #59 for distorted tones. Those are the TV Mix ML IRs.
For dirty clean tones I like to use the Division 13 IR.
Give them a go.

058 — 4x12 TV MIX C1 (ML) — IR mix, based on a 4x2 Marshall TV with G12M25 greenbacks, UltraRes.
059 — 4x12 TV MIX C4 (ML) — IR mix, based on a 4x2 Marshall TV with G12M25 greenbacks, UltraRes.
084 — 1x12 DIVISION 13 MIX — Divided By 13 CJ 11 with a 12" G12M.

Maybe I just really like G12M speakers but these IRs (FOR ME) are really well voiced.

Also you mention the JCM 800. I was just 10 minutes ago playing with the Brit 800 #34 model and the 058-4x12 TV MIX C1 (ML) IR with my PRS Custom 24. I had to actually turn the treble and presence down to 4 and 2.5 respectively.
 
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Some amps you have to turn the presence up quite a bit on them. Check and make sure the previous owner didn't have the main out global EQ's cut in the upper range. I don't use factory cabs at all, maybe get some new ones or shoot your own Ir's.
 
That's kind of shocking for a unit that sells for over $2K new, is it not? As mentioned in my 2nd post, I run sound for many bands, as well as playing in a few regularly. There are fundamental frequencies that inherent to any instrument sitting well in a mix, for each respective style of music. There are common tonalities that "sit better in a mix" than others, and are crucial for a good live sound. Of course tastes will vary, but nothing from the starting point on the AxeFX is anywhere near that type of usuable tone, and that's where I'm left thinking I've done something wrong.

If a throw a Marshall 800 into a Vintage 30 cab, I know how that will sound. I do the same on the Axe, and it's not even in the realm of close. I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.



Attitudes like this are exactly why I've also said the Axe shouldn't include any presets, just a blank slate.

People seem to feel that because its $2k its supposed to give them amazing tone without them having to do more than just press a button. They'd probably like a side of talent with it too lol.

Look at most Mesa Boogie amps, you can spend $2k on one of those and does it sound amazing out of the box ? Heck no, most people find it sounds pretty bad. You need to learn the amp and dial in the tones to make it sound great. I'm sure plenty of people have returned them after 20 minutes though because they didn't sound like JP did in a video.....



Also for what its worth, there have been plenty of people who have claimed the newer FW's are "too brite" and "harsh", so for every "dark" perception there is someone out there who feels the opposite. Its just like food or anything, one mans spicey is another mans bland


Given it sounds like you know your stuff with regards to live sound, and making things sound, at least subjectively to you, "good". It should be no problem at all for you to go through and tweak a few presets into something far superior than what the folks at Fractal included.

Your of course also more than welcome to save those edited banks and upload them on the forum, sharing what is a "useable" tone with the community here. I'm sure folks will be very appreciative as a whole, HOWEVER, I highly doubt every user is going to say they sound ideal, no doubt some folks will say they liked the stock preset sound better.

which is fine, because again, the whole reason we have these tone shaping tools is because we are all different. The Axe isn't a preset box, thank god.

Cliff could of designed a unit with no editable settings, just one knob that scrolls through a number of fixed preset tones. Take it or leave it, have the same sound as anyone else. A true one-hit wonder kit.
 
I too have several PRS guitars. They do not sound dark, at least my definition of dark. Tone is a subjective thing. If you bought the unit used, then I would check the global eq as mentioned. I do not use any factory presets, but not because they are bad, I bought the Axe so I could build my own virtual rigs. IMHO, that is what the Fractal does best.

Personally, I think it is just impossible to put any product on the market that every user loves immediately. Too many people have their own desired tones that float their boat. All you have to do is listen to a sampling of the bazillion videos online to know that the Fractal rocks. I think it is more of a tweakers dream than a plug in and rock device.
 
Are you running your speakers at gig volume?
I find lots of presets tend to wake up once you get a bit of volume behind them.

Also a great live tone that cuts through the mix might be a horrible tone playing at home alone at low volume, so which group should the factory presets cater for?

It won't take you long to get your own sounds dialled in for your guitar/hands/monitors/band.
You'll get heaps of help here if you need it.
Start with just a small number of presets, maybe 3 or 4 for your main sounds.

@yek also has a set of presets that I find work well live. See here
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fractal-audio-amp-models-the-presets-q7-02.112594/
 
Are you running your speakers at gig volume?
I find lots of presets tend to wake up once you get a bit of volume behind them.

Also a great live tone that cuts through the mix might be a horrible tone playing at home alone at low volume, so which group should the factory presets cater for?

It won't take you long to get your own sounds dialled in for your guitar/hands/monitors/band.
You'll get heaps of help here if you need it.
Start with just a small number of presets, maybe 3 or 4 for your main sounds.

@yek also has a set of presets that I find work well live. See here
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fractal-audio-amp-models-the-presets-q7-02.112594/

As he said 1st here, 90% of 'dark' sounding presets are crap low volume, and great when they are loud as sin. Turn it up.
 
Since you purchased used you might also want to do a system reset, if you have not already, and start from the beginning with your I/O settings etc.since you never know what has been changed.

I have never understood the whole " A product costing 2k should be much easier than this" attitude. A 300K Ferrari is much more difficult to drive and learn it's nuances opposed to a 20K Toyota. :)
 
This is odd.

The new FW is bright and this is confirmed by Cliff.
I actually don't like that so much, but the feel is quite good.

As noted- do a system reset.
Reload new FW (unhook your MFC when you do this).
Reload all the new presets.

I have a variety of humbucker and split humbucker guitars (in signature).
All sound very good, but the newer FWs' are definitely brighter than ever before.
 
Some food for thought: in the limited and glorious time in which I owned a PRS Custom 22, the Axe Fx presets sounded absolutely perfect, no tweaks needed.

With my Ibanez, however, it's mud city until I tweak things extensively, no exceptions.

So I agree with the sentiment that the guitar you're using makes a huge difference.
 
I never touch presets, and I gave up on axechange the first month that I owned the ultra nearly 8 years ago... In fact when I save a patch and then switch guitars, it usually requires a few tweaks. The axe is crazy that way, it's one of the reasons I love my axe (and probably why I love amps in the axe that I don't care for in real life experiences) because the guitar makes sooooo much more difference.

Play loud and start with amp block + cab block. Tour the IR's with minimal amp adjustments, then when you've found one that's really alive and giving up the goods, go tour the amps and tweak more in that block. The IR is as important as the amp in the axe, which most head+cab guys aren't used to. It has a lot to do with the fact that the micing choice and technique is baked in.

I was serious about the bass cut too, ever since q7-8 came out I rarely play without it engaged... The later quantum fw's have oomph and body seemingly coming from the soul or dna of the amp now. Lowering the bottom certainly won't brighten the amp, but in my experience it opens up and uncovers the rest. I do also give a really slight bump on 1k and 2k sliders and then a pretty deep cut after 7-8k if it's any more gain then say a classic rock tone. These aren't necessarily instructions for you to follow, but just acknowledging that a little bit of tweaking will get where you want. I've heard more bright axe patches than dark ones...
 
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