ChristThePhone
Fractal Fanatic
Still going to have an impedance misery that can be dealt with a buffered bypass pedal.
That brings me back to post #25
Still going to have an impedance misery that can be dealt with a buffered bypass pedal.
Answered that in post #28That brings me back to post #25
Look at the speaker tab of the amp block and the impedance peaks. What happens in mismatches they flatten...Yes, I read your post and am not questioning it. I just would like to understand why the impedance change tames the top and bottom end but this forum might not be the right place to discuss physics.
I find it weird/unlikely that AX8 should add more noise than your average DI box / audio interface.
I understand that a re-amp box might be needed, but the initial DI should not be necessary. Maybe @FractalAudio or @Danny Danzi can share their experience in this regard?
EDIT: I will get my hands on a Focusrite ISA One tonight, so I can compare all kinds of DI (Guitar->Interface; Guitar-> DI->Interface; Guitar->DI (thru)->AX8->interface;Guitar->AX8->Interface)
Hey Danny, what a nice post - so much information to take in, and hence the late answer
But I guess my conclusion is perfectly in line with yours; with a little care, DI recording and re-amping through AX8 with no extra gear (other than an audio interface) works perfectly and yields a high quality result.
Line level out to line level in is as close as you can get to a unity gain transfer, no color added, minimum distortion in the analog world. You will not get as good a result by sending line level back to the AX8 instrument level input. A conversion box (line to instrument) is going to sound somewhat different than the impedance loading of a guitar pickup circuit. The AX8 is not an amp, so you don't need to reamp through the guitar input to get to the preamp as you would with a real amp. Go in the FX return (In 2), set to left only in I/O Audio (its even designed for it).
Record the initial DI from the FXLoop Out 2 (echo Input) and into Line In on the Interface to record into the DAW. (Meanwhile, the full AX8 amp & effects is being recorded via Outs 1 or SPDIF).
For re-amping: Return the DI track from the DAW out to the Interface's Line level balanced out and into AX8 Line level balanced In 2 FX return. By adjusting (attenuating in this case) the return level from the DAW send until the gain matches (hitting the amp model input with the same level).
Sending the DI through the same effects chain in the AX8 and re-recording it via SPDIF sounds identical to the original AX8 amp and effects recorded at the same time as the original DI (I can't tell them apart. Also: wave forms look the same). No discernible added noise (the RF hum of the ungated silent guitar would mask what there might be). I've also recorded DI via the UAD Apollo, a Focusrite ISA1, and an ART DMPA Tube pre: they all sound different from each other and the DI from the AX8, in part because the pickup loading and therefore frequency response is different into other units, or when guitar is split to two inputs. So, you won't be able to exactly replicate the original tracking through the AX8 when you reamp unless you used the AX8 for the DI (if you just wanted to change up one phrase for example). I've attached a couple of screen captures from AX8edit showing the routing for DI and for the reamp. Note: the FXLoop position (in the reamping image) doesn't have to be in the leftmost slot, nor need to have a shunt to the left side. That signal is coming from the FX return, not guitar in.
View attachment 36445
Good question. Seems line out > re amp box > regular input would be the way to go then? Anyone tried that? Don't have re amp box.
I did. Also the one about poor noise floor. Maybe folks are cranking the gain on the DI - I don't know. The recorded DI signal through the AX8 into the DAW is under -24db. As far as "shouldn't be using the FX loop for reamping." : well, I tell myself it must be a misunderstanding and happily continue to successfully reamp.Maybe you should read post #5
I did. Also the one about poor noise floor. Maybe folks are cranking the gain on the DI - I don't know. The recorded DI signal through the AX8 into the DAW is under -24db.
All I can say is I've done it dozens of times now, (as have clients): those of you that actually try it: you'll see it works fine. its easy. True, I have a great interface in the Apollo: but as this is all line level transfer, and audio 101 gain staging: any decent prosumer device should be able to do at least reasonably well.
Did a quick test: Cranked the Euro Uber model for a focused, saturated tone with inherent pre and power amp distortion and compression for a hot signal -6db at the DAW output. Yes, noise is evident in quieter passages, original SPDIF or re-amped. I take it as normal. What I think is going on: The guitar noise level is also being amplified 30 ish db, but is not compressed nearly as much by the amp, since its mostly below the threshold of saturation and compression the rest of the signal is being crushed with. The noise of the guitar volume on 10, not being played is now at -18db = Loud (gate off) It was about -45db in the Fender Twin example. The noise of the circuit (guitar volume = 0) originally below -60db is now boosted to -35 db, which is masked by the noise contribution of the guitar when its on. DI reamped or original SPDIF sound the same. So, as I see it, the degree to which a cranked amp (or model) acts as a compressor bringing up the inherent guitar signal noise floor is the significant factor, the process of send and return for the DI is below that threshold.