"Real amps just have something modelers can't replicate"

Dave Merrill said:
Have you played the Axe 2 recently?
If so, how did it sound and feel to you?
There's a rumor that while not as advanced in every way, it might have a more "idealized" tone than the 3, much less accurate but cool in its own way.
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I have not played it lately, and I'm not sure I will need to. I'm very much a master volume Marshall edge of breakup player, and while it was possible to get a pretty good sound with Ares, I was still deep-diving the power amp and preamp tabs every time I needed to change my amp setup. It did sound very cool, but Cygnus changed everything for the amp models I love. And of course Cliff went all out on classic Marshall edge of breakup feel in a good number of models.

However, for my budding home recording setup that I'm not finding time to use. The Axe FX II automatically pays its way in life just as an outboard effects unit. It's just decoration in a 2U 19" slot for now, but it's still worth a lot more to me than I could sell it for.

Liam
 
A few days ago I was close to pulling the trigger on a Mesa Mark VII. To prove to myself that I didn’t need it, I disconnected from my studio monitors and plugged into the return of my Tremoverb ( It’s been 3 years since I fired that amp up) pulled up a Mark IV preset disengaged the cab section and felt completely satisfied with the tones, dynamics and feeling.

Then I ran it thru my TAE and pulled a matchless preset jammed on that for a few hours.

I ended up with a GC exclusive Gibson 335 block in the beautiful ebony finish.

Fractal has definitely scratched the itch for new amps.
 
vj.907 said:
Fractal has definitely scratched the itch for new amps.
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And pedals. And basically everything else.

Granted, I've pretty much always managed to keep the GAS in check for basically all of my hobbies/passions/etc.. And I do have a few pedals on my board (the Fractal can do everything - I literally just think they look cool). But...I'm at the point that I don't actually care if there's some tone I can't get. If the Fractal can't do it, I'm not really interested in it. The experience is just so much better than when I was using "real" gear.

Honestly....I'm getting that way with most of what I do.

Photography - all but one of my lenses are packed up and ready to be sold. That body & lens might be it, and I'll just rent when I need something else specific. I may end up buying a few lights/stands/modifiers, but nothing I've tried is really blowing my hair back enough for the cost yet. I don't really do studio photography all that often, and the rental fees are about 2-3% of the purchase price. So, it doesn't really make sense to have stuff sitting in a closet for ~ 350 days/year.

DJing - I actually do want a couple things. The software I use has a (very limited but good enough) step sequencer, and a MIDI controller shows up tomorrow that I think will work. Past that, I want a new mixer or main controller. But, nothing on the market is perfect and everything's crazy expensive. And I'm enough of an audio engineering dork that I can make what I have work...it's just not ideal. Basically, I'm waiting to see what NI's new 4-deck controller looks like (they're going to release one - I just don't know when).

Mastering - I don't think I've bought anything since last winter. I've demoed a few things, but nothing was "good enough". There's one plugin that I've had in a minimized browser window for several weeks that I'll get around to demoing eventually - but it's really just a different interface on a) something I can already do, though in a convoluted way and b) is better handled in mixing anyway. I guess I'll buy it if I actually need it. But...I think I'm solidly in the "update things when they stop working" stage of that journey.

Guitar - I've got three guitars that I think are lifers and an acoustic that ticks the box. I might be done unless something really sparks my interest and I happen to have the money burning a hole in my pocket. I don't actually want anything. I don't even watch/read pedal announcements/demos anymore.
 
Amps sure can smell different when the tubes heat up, especially if the amp was in a bar or a practice space with food, booze, people smoking... Fractal has done nothing about this. I am appalled.

I expect boot options for -
"What were people smoking - Marlboro Reds, Weed, Cigars?" and
"What musty scent is preferred today - poorly ventilated practice space, drummer's basement funk, backline at a bar gig?"

At an absolute minimum in the next FW.
 
FPFL said:
Amps sure can smell different when the tubes heat up, especially if the amp was in a bar or a practice space with food, booze, people smoking... Fractal has done nothing about this. I am appalled.

I expect boot options for -
"What were people smoking - Marlboro Reds, Weed, Cigars?" and
"What musty scent is preferred today - poorly ventilated practice space, drummer's basement funk, backline at a bar gig?"

At an absolute minimum in the next FW.
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I keep thinking about getting a Nixie clock just so I can have something sitting around that looks like tubes but isn't useless.
 
I dunno. I recently got a Bogner Snorkler and woo boy that thing is fun. Maybe it's mostly mental, I don't know. But even through a Power Station and IRs, it seems to have a feel and an oomph that I don't really get from the Axe. But maybe a blind test would show me I'm being silly.

This is a great vid, if anyone wants to take a stab at it.
 
JOHNNYROCKIT said:

"Real amps just have something modelers can't replicate"​

Modelers can't replicate the aching back I got from carrying my 1972 Ampeg VT22 amps all over Gods green earth. 🤕:frowning:😂
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Decades ago I gigged with a VT22 using the subways of NYC for transportation. Hauling that thing up and down the multi-level NYC subway stairs almost gave me a heart attack.
 
Re jcm800 and 2ch recto: those amps likely wont skyrocket. The 2ch thing is known and the multi-watt used that spec - most will buy the mw. The 2205 doesnt have the cache of the 03/04 and has sold for less for a long time.

Drop the what if, sell the gear :)

Then you have money for more guitars.
 
My friend and bandmate Dan had a pair of these;
With a Huge AlNiCo magnet (approx 8.74 pounds)
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Electro-Voice SRO 12 “Coffee Can” Speakers in his Ampeg VT22 amp.

I thought I had it bad but with my stock Ampeg VT22 speaker installed,
and I did not envy the tonnage he had to drag around.
 
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marsonic said:
Guitar - I've got three guitars that I think are lifers and an acoustic that ticks the box. I might be done unless something really sparks my interest and I happen to have the money burning a hole in my pocket. I don't actually want anything. I don't even watch/read pedal announcements/demos anymore.
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I hear you man, since getting the AXE III and FM3 I’ve picked up an embarrassing amount of guitars and now just added a 335. I need to rethink my priorities and scale down to maybe a

Super Strat: Suhr Modern
Strat: fender deluxe
Tele: fender thinline
Singlecut: 1994 LP standard
Semi hollow: 335
And gotta have my gretsch penguin.

It still is a lot, I’m having fun putting my 335 thru its paces and these T-Pickups cover a lot of ground who knows I may just end up keeping it after the honeymoon phase and put the rest up for sale or hang on to them and pass it down to my kids/grands.
 
jaycal6 said:
I dunno. I recently got a Bogner Snorkler and woo boy that thing is fun. Maybe it's mostly mental, I don't know. But even through a Power Station and IRs, it seems to have a feel and an oomph that I don't really get from the Axe. But maybe a blind test would show me I'm being silly.

This is a great vid, if anyone wants to take a stab at it.
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One thing I've noticed with running real amps through loadboxes and A/Bing them with the AxeFX models is the load boxes definitely color the sound in different ways (even if they claim to be "transparent"). I haven't used a Power Station so I can't speak to that unit, but I have a Torpedo and a RedSeven Amp Central and they sound noticeably different. The Two Notes has more mids and sounds a little harsh, whereas the Amp Central has more low end, rolls off the highs past 7k, and generally feels warmer and squishier, which I like more. Probably nothing that couldn't be replicated with the right EQ/etc settings in the AxeFX itself, but I also enjoy the space-heater side effect of running a real amp in the winter, lol.
 
jephjacques said:
One thing I've noticed with running real amps through loadboxes and A/Bing them with the AxeFX models is the load boxes definitely color the sound in different ways (even if they claim to be "transparent"). I haven't used a Power Station so I can't speak to that unit, but I have a Torpedo and a RedSeven Amp Central and they sound noticeably different. The Two Notes has more mids and sounds a little harsh, whereas the Amp Central has more low end, rolls off the highs past 7k, and generally feels warmer and squishier, which I like more. Probably nothing that couldn't be replicated with the right EQ/etc settings in the AxeFX itself, but I also enjoy the space-heater side effect of running a real amp in the winter, lol.
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I strongly suspect the differences you're hearing are due to the differing impedance curves of the loadboxes. I don't know what curve the RedSeven is based around, but the Two Notes curve is one of the available presets in the Axe-FX. The Two Notes curve is not closely related to the impedance curve of any known speaker.
 
I have A and B'ed a lot of different Tube Amps vs the Fractal with an LXII Poweramp and a 4x12. Every test I did I was able to get the Fractal to sound like the real amp or better. Every amp I wanted to purchase, I tested against the Fractal with a good poweramp, I would blindly switch between both of them and couldn't tell the difference. I have no want or need a tube amp anymore and that's pretty crazy to me. Especially given the dream amps that are in the Axe that I can't afford in real life.
 
Life's too short. Always great to have options.

When I had an Axe FXIII, it lived in my studio rack. Had a hell of a lot of fun with that thing. Bought a QC, sold it, then sold the QC and now full circle with a new Axe in my studio.

The new one that's inbound will be used the same way, based on my use case. Which is as an IR and FX unit. Have some nice preamps and power amps that I'll run through it (with a loadbox if necessary).

I'm aware that sounds limiting, but I used to do a fair amount of tweaking the Axe FXIII with its inbuilt amp models and I just got to say: option paralysis is a real issue for some users like me when it comes to dialling in an amp sound.

I mean, sure, it'll sound great one day. The next day however, I'm confused why I made a certain tweak. And then another perceived problem frequency on the third day.

With an amp, of course, you run into problems of the sound being different on a daily basis too. But they're really easy to dial and you don't have to focus so much on all these micro-parameters in multiple pages that could be either saving or destroying your tone.

Worth noting that users like Tosin Abasi and Meshuggah have moved away from the Axe FXIII for real amps even as others have jumped onboard.

What does that prove?

Absolutely nothing. You can do the same sounds with an FXIII and the soundman will thank you for it.

That said, quite happy to take something small like a Victory Kraken or a PRS Archon 25 combo for a small jam with friends. I don't use a lot of FX anyway.

On another day? Take a Mark IV and crush the venue, though I really don't play out that much to do that with any regularity.

I guess the bottomline is that you can get a great sound out of any of those devices, and I'm happy to sit in both camps.
 
nightlight said:
option paralysis is a real issue for some users like me when it comes to dialling in an amp sound.
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Yeah....it definitely can be. There's a part of me that think GAS actually comes from something very much like Option Paralysis....you hear something cool, you wonder if you actually want it, you buy it, it doesn't solve all your problems, and you do it again. When you have all the options a click/turn/block away....it happens more often. At least it doesn't cost money.

Choosing to limit yourself can be a very good thing. And, I think that's why I came to my general revelation about GAS - the "better" I am at any given thing, the less I care about gear once it does what I need and is "good enough" (however high that bar is - it might need to be one of the best in the world, or it might just need to tick the box, or anything in-between).

I play with other amp models sometimes, and I've changed my cab a handful of times. But, The Fractals would still be worth it to me if they had exactly one amp model - as long as it was the right one. I might use 2-3% of what a Fractal can do. I just really love that 2-3%.

Mastering is kinda the same way. It's been almost a year since I've bought anything. There's literally one plugin I kinda want to try, but it's just a different interface on something I can already do. So...meh. I'm also still on RX 10. I think I'm going to wait and see what's new in 12. 11 isn't enough of an upgrade for me to care. Etc..

DJing....same thing. I've upgraded software, but my gear hasn't changed in over 10 years. It still does everything I want to do the way I want to do it. Heck, my mixer was discontinued in 2015, IIRC. There's literally one product in the entire DJ market that's been released in the last 10 years that I might think about at some point...other than a new computer when mine won't do what I need anymore, of course.

nightlight said:
With an amp, of course, you run into problems of the sound being different on a daily basis too. But they're really easy to dial and you don't have to focus so much on all these micro-parameters in multiple pages that could be either saving or destroying your tone.
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I mean....nothing is actually forcing you to do that. You're choosing to do it. Having options doesn't mean you have to use them.

I'm pretty sure that on my amp, I literally just use the first page and the output compressor (because I exclusively play through IEMs with no room sound).
 
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