"Real amps just have something modelers can't replicate"

I've realized I need my amps to be happy just as much as I need my Axe to be happy. Sometimes I enjoy my amps, sometimes I enjoy the Axe, sometimes I hate both of them when I can't figure out how to get to the tone I'm after. One thing's for certain, though: at this point the Axe is every bit as good as an amp is.
 
I've realized I need my amps to be happy just as much as I need my Axe to be happy. Sometimes I enjoy my amps, sometimes I enjoy the Axe, sometimes I hate both of them when I can't figure out how to get to the tone I'm after. One thing's for certain, though: at this point the Axe is every bit as good as an amp is.
That’s the crazy part. It’s been in its cover for 4+ years. I haven’t played it in 4+ years.

Yet I know it’s there and I know it looks damn good, so my thought is “I’ll miss it when it’s gone”

My brother collects autographed NFL quarterback helmets. Has an entire wall of them. I think it’s kind of the same thing - he’ll never sell them, they don’t serve a function, yet just knowing they are there makes him happy.

I had a morbid thought that when Randall Smith passes it might be worth a bundle, but then the Gibson thing happened and Mesa just doesn’t quite have the street cred it used to have. Even though mine was made pre-Gibson.
 
I've realized I need my amps to be happy just as much as I need my Axe to be happy. Sometimes I enjoy my amps, sometimes I enjoy the Axe, sometimes I hate both of them when I can't figure out how to get to the tone I'm after. One thing's for certain, though: at this point the Axe is every bit as good as an amp is.
I mentioned in another thread, having said for years that I don't really need my real amps anymore, one easily forgets if you don't have the right monitoring or FOH available to you, the Axe FX is massively compromised. My only gig this year ended up being a little stressful in rehearsal, as my 2 x Red Sound MF.10 stereo setup was plenty too loud for me, but due to having such an even spread of sound, just wasn't loud enough for the drummer over the other side of the room.

So while I was cheerfully thinking how amazingly accurately the Axe FX was reproducing the sound of my 100 watt Marshall 1/2 stack, the drummer was missing having that tone projected at him. More importantly, we didn't know much about the FOH setup for the gig itself, and we both then started to worry whether I'd be heard out front at the gig. For the last rehearsal (a 7 hour drive from home, I am committed!) I got the 1/2 stack loaded in my van. When I eventually got there, I set up using the Axe FX for effects only, and ran it into the 100 watt Marshall. The drummer was immensely cheered by this, because to him, I immediately sounded like "me", 20+ years ago.

When the gig came, of course it turned out there were no proper monitors aside from vocals (we've not yet caught up with the concept of IEM), so the drummer barely heard a note I was playing when he was hitting skins. I couldn't hear him very well either. But at least we were both confident I could be heard properly out front and vice versa. Had I used the MF.10s I would have heard even less of him, and I don't think I'd have been all that audible out front without running an output to the PA, which was kind of on the small side for an outdoor gig.

Long story short(ish):

1. There are few scenarios where you really need a 100 watt Marshall tube amp and 4x12. However, when you meet one of those scenarios, there isn't really any substitute. It's an extreme case, but the same must be true to an extent for all amps. In most cases the Axe FX III can be a really good substitute with more advantages than limitations.

2. The Axe FX III can do pretty much anything, but it's not a power amp or a speaker system, even though it can replicate the tone and feel of either amazingly well at "pre-amp" level. Real amps do have something that modellers can't replicate, but that's only because they have some electrical and physical attributes that modellers cannot address themselves. They are dependent on power amps and speakers.

3. I definitely don't need any effects pedals anymore. I had about 10 of them on my last pedal board as best I remember, lots of them vintage and desirable, and maybe another 40 that drifted in and out of regular use. I used a switching system on that pedal board, with MIDI into at least one of the pedals usually. The Axe FX III does all that could do and much more, and replicates my old effects unbelievably well. (Can we have a Boss BD-2 please? ;) )

4. This turned out to be a slippery slope, because since then I spent a small fortune on the best sounding original 1967 Fender Deluxe Reverb I have ever heard. I've sold more amps than I've bought since I got my first Axe FX, but it turns out real amps do actually have some genuine merits that I can exploit occasionally. If the right classic Marshall head or speaker shows up...

5. Given that it turns out I need real amps as well as an Axe FX III, I'm considering whether I need a VP4. The Axe FX and FC12 are amazing at replicating the enormous pedalboard I used to lug around, but at that gig it was awkward knowing where to put the Axe FX rack. Hard to believe that a VP4 and a single expression pedal might just do it all when I'm using a real amp, but I honestly think it might.

Liam
 
...Given that it turns out I need real amps as well as an Axe FX III, I'm considering whether I need a VP4. The Axe FX and FC12 are amazing at replicating the enormous pedalboard I used to lug around, but at that gig it was awkward knowing where to put the Axe FX rack. Hard to believe that a VP4 and a single expression pedal might just do it all when I'm using a real amp, but I honestly think it might.
Why not the FM9? If I had a need like this I'd definitely go for an FM9. More possibilities than the VP4 but has the floorboard format.
 
Why not the FM9? If I had a need like this I'd definitely go for an FM9. More possibilities than the VP4 but has the floorboard format.
That's why I have an AXE FXIII and an FM9.
I can use "nearly...😏" the same presets in both devices and I use them depending on stage space.
I also have a third even more compact system (compatible with aeroplane cabin luggage), with sounds less accurate, but same "sounds list" and same flexibility of the AXE. It's also my emergency backup in case of failure of first two.
 
That’s the crazy part. It’s been in its cover for 4+ years. I haven’t played it in 4+ years.

Yet I know it’s there and I know it looks damn good, so my thought is “I’ll miss it when it’s gone”

My brother collects autographed NFL quarterback helmets. Has an entire wall of them. I think it’s kind of the same thing - he’ll never sell them, they don’t serve a function, yet just knowing they are there makes him happy.

I had a morbid thought that when Randall Smith passes it might be worth a bundle, but then the Gibson thing happened and Mesa just doesn’t quite have the street cred it used to have. Even though mine was made pre-Gibson.
I literally just sold my Splawn Quickrod and a vertical Mesa Recto 2x12. Still need to actually sell the 2-ch Mesa Triple Recto, a JCM800 2205 and another Mesa Recto vertical 2x12. All have been collecting dust since I was first Fractilized over 10 years ago…

Selling them still feels strange though :(
 
Why not the FM9? If I had a need like this I'd definitely go for an FM9. More possibilities than the VP4 but has the floorboard format.
I guess I'm hoping the third option mentioned by @BobXX might be the VP4! Would be good if you can spill the beans on what it is.

Still trying to figure out why I haven't sold my Axe FX II and MFC-101, but they feel to be worth more than the money I'll get if I sell them. Superseded by Axe FX III and FC-12, but somehow still here...

Could equally be an FM9, but almost 3 times the money for capability I'm not sure I need in another box.

Honestly, if I had a gig tomorrow night, I'd be pretty cheerful going to it with my Princeton Reverb and TS-10 or BD-2. In reality I'd more likely take the Axe FX. But somewhere between the 2 of those might be cool too. ;)

Liam
 
I literally just sold my Splawn Quickrod and a vertical Mesa Recto 2x12. Still need to actually sell the 2-ch Mesa Triple Recto, a JCM800 2205 and another Mesa Recto vertical 2x12. All have been collecting dust since I was first Fractilized over 10 years ago…

Selling them still feels strange though :(
I'd recommend against selling the Marshall 2205. I never loved them myself, but serviced a few over the years. A good friend is a 2210 devotee. They aren't for me, but they definitely have a place in rock history. Special amps that will probably go up in value.

Look at me! Thought Fractal could replace everything for a while. Some of these amps are worth hanging on to!

Liam
 
I'd recommend against selling the Marshall 2205. I never loved them myself, but serviced a few over the years. A good friend is a 2210 devotee. They aren't for me, but they definitely have a place in rock history. Special amps that will probably go up in value.

Look at me! Thought Fractal could replace everything for a while. Some of these amps are worth hanging on to!

Liam
I had a 2210 back in the day that I bought in Germany. It had been modded - no idea what the actual mod was - but that thing SCREAMED. I stupidly sold it long long ago and that’s the “amp that got away”
 
I guess I'm hoping the third option mentioned by @BobXX might be the VP4! Would be good if you can spill the beans on what it is.

Unfortunately not, VP4 is a 4 x effect that can't be used as the FM/AXE series and FM3 haven't the power I need.
My third "super small & light" system is based on BOSS GT-1000 CORE (lower left side of photo) + VE500 (voice effects) + an Arduino DIY super compact foot controller.

I've built it to have an airplane carry-on luggage "compatible" rig in terms of size and weight,
but I quickly discovered that it was possible to make it be also a perfect backup unit of the AXE rack/FM9.

In fact, with some audio quality & I/O compromises I was able to build the same sound chains, program maps, IRs, modifiers and same behaviour than the AXE (the GT-1000 is even more powerful in terms of MIDI) and have my much-needed 2 simultaneous Pitch Blocks (up to 3...): virtual capo/octaver + harmonizer.
Paradoxically the much bigger beast FM9 can't do it, since strangely still only has 1 pitch.

I've also built in a MIDI input/merger, so I can use it with the same footcontrollers (not in foto) achieving the same usage/behaviour as the AXE rack in case I need an emergency swap.

20251116_021412.jpg
 
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Still trying to figure out why I haven't sold my Axe FX II and MFC-101,
Have you played the Axe 2 recently?
If so, how did it sound and feel to you?
There's a rumor that while not as advanced in every way, it might have a more "idealized" tone than the 3, much less accurate but cool in its own way.
 
Been playing my real amps quite a bit lately (Matchless HC30, Morgan Dual 20, Welagen ODS). There's definitely a difference in real amps vs modeling. I love the rawness of a real amp, and the feel of an amp in the room. The big difference is the interaction with the guitar, something you can't replicate without volume.
 
Been playing my real amps quite a bit lately (Matchless HC30, Morgan Dual 20, Welagen ODS). There's definitely a difference in real amps vs modeling. I love the rawness of a real amp, and the feel of an amp in the room. The big difference is the interaction with the guitar, something you can't replicate without volume.
You definitely can make a modeler loud though!
 
I literally just sold my Splawn Quickrod and a vertical Mesa Recto 2x12. Still need to actually sell the 2-ch Mesa Triple Recto, a JCM800 2205 and another Mesa Recto vertical 2x12. All have been collecting dust since I was first Fractilized over 10 years ago…

Selling them still feels strange though :(
I constantly think about selling my Roadster; the main block is having to sell it locally because the cost of shipping will be like 30% the sale price due to the classic "1 lb per watt" formula for boogies...

EDIT: I also second the other guy RE: hold on to the Marshall. That could be a retirement plan. Possibly the 2 CH recto, too, although I don't know enough about the ins and outs to know which rectos are valuable.
 
Have you played the Axe 2 recently?
If so, how did it sound and feel to you?
There's a rumor that while not as advanced in every way, it might have a more "idealized" tone than the 3, much less accurate but cool in its own way.

I myself still preferred Ares, or pre-15.00 firmware. It was smoother and more polished, which I actually liked more. But once the MaxonOD was added there was no going back lol
 
Still trying to figure out why I haven't sold my Axe FX II and MFC-101,
Still have mine spdif'd to Ax3 for added fx. Been a while so I fired up the Ax2 amp models this morning and A/B'd with Ax3 into the same IR and with similar speaker tab settings. Huge difference on the amp models I tried (rectos, energyball..). Generally much brighter on Ax2 but there's other obvious differences also - tho not as accurate, I can see/hear how some would want to keep Ax2 around to have the set of sounds offered at that time. I figured I'd let my Ax2 go if/when I picked up Ax4 at some point but now, after this listen, I'm not so sure - will probably keep it as a "vintage rack piece"
 
Still have mine spdif'd to Ax3 for added fx. Been a while so I fired up the Ax2 amp models this morning and A/B'd with Ax3 into the same IR and with similar speaker tab settings. Huge difference on the amp models I tried (rectos, energyball..). Generally much brighter on Ax2 but there's other obvious differences also - tho not as accurate, I can see/hear how some would want to keep Ax2 around to have the set of sounds offered at that time. I figured I'd let my Ax2 go if/when I picked up Ax4 at some point but now, after this listen, I'm not so sure - will probably keep it as a "vintage rack piece"
Does anyone have any sense of how to give Axe 3 presets some of the Axe 2 vibe and texture?
 
The amp modeling has changed a ton since Aries, so I'm not sure that's even possible anymore. The current modeling is more accurate and sounds better at default settings. I tweak so much less with the Axe III than I did on the Axe II. I hardly ever touch the advanced amp parameters anymore. I usually needed to do a bit more fine tuning on the Axe II models to get them where I wanted them.
 
Comparing my amps next to my AxeIII+ FRFR system always tells me to put the amps back in the basement and use on the Axe-fx.
However it needs some unexpected tweaks to get close enough sounds.
It needs some more mids than what sounds perfect, when it's getting a bit honkey and midrangey, that's good.
It needs way less gain than what feels easy to play. It seems you can't have it that comfortable, real amps don't support your fingers that much. Except from extreme high-gain sounds I should be able to dial back to an all clean sound on my guitar's volume pot.
And always keeping some clarity and immediacy in the mids, once they get weakend or smeared that sound will not cut through anymore. More volume will not fix it there. Clarity in the mids is a key factor!
Also remembering to keep some roughness in the highs, polished sounds cut through some worse.
And at least a decent listening volume, these amp-like sounds sound like crap at lower volumes.
Still a physical 4x12 impression isn't possible from a 1x12 FRFR, but the audience also knows them miced up only, they have no clue, so I don't care.

So many traps where you could go wrong.
If you can't get amps tones, put that amp next to it and try to copy it's sound.
 
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