Questions about Dynamics, Pickups and IR's

GotMetalBoy

GotMetalBoy

Power User
I know there are a ton of ways to adjust dynamics with the Axe-Fx II with the Noise Gate / Expander, Comp and Amp Blocks but do guitar pickups and IR's affect dynamics or is it just frequency response and our ears think we feel a difference?

I know pickups have different outputs and frequencies but are their dynamic ratios similar? Example, if I apply different picking pressure is the output ratio 1:1 and linear or are some pickups 2:1, 4:1 and logarithmic etc.?

I use the Noise Gate / Expander to customize my input dynamics ratio and then use the Compressor on the output to control my output dynamics ratio.

Here's an example of how I use the Noise Gate / Expander to manipulate my input dynamics ratio:
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threa...ho-wants-more-dynamics-and-pick-attack.49252/

Also, do IR's affect dynamics or picking sensitivity because I feel like they do but I'm not sure if it's just the difference in frequency curves that makes my ears think that. Like I know that IR's don't change or affect the gain of the Drive or Amp block but I feel like the gain / distortion increases or decreases with different IR's, especially if they are dull or bright sounding.

It's amazing how much control we have with the Axe-Fx II and I'm just trying to understand how everything works together.

Thanks again FAS Team for making our tone dreams a reality!
 
Pickups play a huge roll in dynamics. HB pickups act totally different than single coil pickups. Hot wound and active pickups will have different characteristics. Different picking techniques and attack, (even picks themselves) also play a huge roll in dynamics. Some guitar players will use metal picks to get a more aggressive tone. One thing I like about the AXE is I can adjust these factors to make a preset more dynamically aggressive and not have to use heavy pick attack.
 
HarrySound said:
This is a dumb idea I know and everyone will shoot it down but when I get home I'm going to experiment with the Tone Match block at the begging of a preset tone. I plan to tone match a really aggressive PRS Tremonti ceramic pickup dry signal with an alnico PRS 85/15 and see what comes out :)
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That's not a dumb idea, it's actually a great idea!

If your interested, here's a thread similar to your idea that has a lot of good info and partially what caused me to create this thread.

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/pickup-tone-match.77058/
 
Oh cool!
I'll give it a try and see how it goes.
If it goes well then maybe I could set up an FTP to host some pickup samples for people to tone match?
If anyone actually cared that is.
I believe the best results come from doing the "cliff boogie" style of playing too.....
 
Tone matching = EQ matching. It will not capture the differences in dynamics between different pickups. It can sound closer in terms of frequency response, but don't expect a tone match to turn a lipstick single coil pickup into a hot humbucker or vice versa. Pickup tone comes from a complex combination of wind style, magnet style, string coverage, resonant peaks, and interaction with the volume and tone controls as well as the cable and receiving input.
 
You probably already know this, but two things not mentioned so far that has a dramatic impact on dynamics are speaker size (not the IR) and volume. You won't get great dynamics at real low volumes and certainly not with small monitors.

just sayin,
boogie
 
mr_fender said:
Tone matching = EQ matching. It will not capture the differences in dynamics between different pickups. It can sound closer in terms of frequency response, but don't expect a tone match to turn a lipstick single coil pickup into a hot humbucker or vice versa. Pickup tone comes from a complex combination of wind style, magnet style, string coverage, resonant peaks, and interaction with the volume and tone controls as well as the cable and receiving input.
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Yeah goes without saying, after all it's never going to change the magnetic field in an accurate way but You could perhaps get closer to the brightness, presence and bass of a pickup.
I gave it a quick go and it doesn't really do anything you couldn't do with post amp tone matching but I shall continue to experiment.

Personally I have a strange problem where my PRS custom 24 is just so damn resonant it rings forever where as my PRS SE with Tremonti pickup really lacks that resonance so your able to get a tight metal riff sound out of it.
 
HarrySound said:
Personally I have a strange problem where my PRS custom 24 is just so damn resonant it rings forever where as my PRS SE with Tremonti pickup really lacks that resonance so your able to get a tight metal riff sound out of it.
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The wood and construction of the guitar makes big differences, too.
 
I'm going to buck the trend and say that there is no significant difference in dynamics between different pickups or IRs.

The output of any pickup is proportional to picking strength. It's how your amp responds to the pickup's output that determines dynamics.

Got a really hot humbucker that's slamming your amp, making for more compression and less dynamics? Back down the amp's gain, and dynamics come back. Your amp will respond the same as if you had a lower-output pickup and higher amp gain.

The differences between pickups and IRs come down to frequency response. The frequency response of a humbucker is a complex thing because the pickup's coils are picking up different phases of different frequencies, but there are no inherent dynamic differences between pickups. It's all about how your amp reacts to the signal it's getting.
 
Rex said:
but there are no inherent dynamic differences between pickups.
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In my experience, I disagree. An alnico V pickup in the same guitar into the same amp, sounds and reacts dynamically different than a ceramic. It's also something that cannot be dialed in with the amp to try and make them feel the same. Again, this is my experience. YMMV
 
The guitar makes a difference. Pickups make a bigger difference.

Tone = voice = EQ. Both the pickup's and the guitar contribute to tone.

Character = nebulous, undefined term that a hundred people will define in a hundred different ways. Tone is one factor of character.
 
I've never understood how guitar wood changes the sound of a guitar thru pickups because pickups don't capture sound like a microphone. If you try to talk into a guitar pickup it barely captures the sound but if you put something metal in front of it, it captures the sound.

Also, I'm not arguing with anyones statements, they're all great. I'm just asking questions because I really don't know much about how pickups or IR's work and if or how they affect dynamics or just frequencies.
 
GotMetalBoy said:
I've never understood how guitar wood changes the sound of a guitar thru pickups because pickups don't capture sound like a microphone.
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The guitar vibrates. Those vibrations aren't just the whole guitar shaking. Some of the vibrations are the guitar flexing back and forth, just like a string does. The pickups are mounted on the guitar, so they're vibrating back and for relative to the strings, which is no different from the the strings vibrating back and forth relative to the pickups.
 
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Hell, I'll chime in too.

If you don't think pickups matter - including their dynamic range, try playing some death metal on a single coil. The guitar doesn't matter that much... Chuck and EMG 81 into ANY Tele and you can still play the heaviest stuff out.

The pickups definitely have dynamic range limitations in my experience. Playing an X2N always sounds like it, even if you reduce the Input Trim to 0.1, and it still doesn't play nicely with low power amps.

But you can always whack up the Input Trim and stick a Compressor first in line and jam some thrash with a set of PAFs.
 
GotMetalBoy said:
I've never understood how guitar wood changes the sound of a guitar thru pickups because pickups don't capture sound like a microphone. If you try to talk into a guitar pickup it barely captures the sound but if you put something metal in front of it, it captures the sound.

Also, I'm not arguing with anyones statements, they're all great. I'm just asking questions because I really don't know much about how pickups or IR's work and if or how they affect dynamics or just frequencies.
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It's not affecting the pickup so much but rather the strings. The wood resonance can affect the way the strings vibrate as the body and more so the neck vibrate sympathetically with the strings. Some frequencies can get cancelled out or absorbed while others can get reinforced. It can affect sustain and overall tone to an extent. It's nowhere near as prominent as the pickup's own response, but it can make a slight difference in the overall response of the guitar. The exact same pickup can sound slightly different in two different guitars. Vintage unpotted pickups can be slightly microphonic as well and the guitar's resonance can come through a bit more. Again, it's usually pretty subtle but it can make a difference.
 
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