Question: Why do different guitars react more with AFX rather than with a rea...

[shemihazazel]

I don't have an answer because I don't experience this. Guitars don't "interact" with the front end of an amp.

I don't think the difference in tone between different guitars with the same amp is any more pronounced in the Axe-Fx than with hardware amps. Like everything else, it's right on the money.

 

[tommyco10]

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[lqdsnddist]

So...now can we all admit sharing presets was a stupid idea to begin with?

I never understood the popularity of the concept, because everyone's speakers/guitars sound so drastically different with the Axe...

Its only stupid if someone naively believes that any preset is going to sound good with any guitar. If you do a little research though, and determine what type of guitar, pick-ups, playing style et al., that a preset designed was working with, you can get fantastic results.

Take Tyler's fantastic SRV presets, created on a strat, and when used with a strat (which is kind of a "duh" for a SRV preset in the first place) they sound great. Doesn't sound as good as Tyler playing them, but that is because I don't have his skill


One of the great features of the Axe IMO, is that we can quickly and easily share presets, such as Yek's amazing stuff. Maybe have to tweak slightly to taste, but his routing and programing skills let me take my Axe in ways I'd never come up with

To suggest a core feature of the unit, and one that is enjoyed by tons of users, is stupid, just because you personally don't find value in it is what I think is stupid.

 

[tommyco10]

Its only stupid if someone naively believes that any preset is going to sound good with any guitar. If you do a little research though, and determine what type of guitar, pick-ups, playing style et al., that a preset designed was working with, you can get fantastic results.

I'm not sure anyone's seriously been expecting more than they got by trying the 'bulb' rhythm preset with an electric banjo.

The essence of this thread is much less fundamental than what you are suggesting, and I don't think that should necessarily make other peoples presets irrelevant...

My point is that I've tried guitars of similar construction with similar pickups into the same patch on the AFX and have unusual results.

I try the same guitars through the same real-world amp and I get what I expect...

 

[tommyco10]

I don't have an answer because I don't experience this. Guitars don't "interact" with the front end of an amp.

Thank you for looking at this Cliff.

I'm not at all meaning to do a disservice to your amazing product, but it's something I've noticed since I've owned it.

Please correct me if I'm wrong (I'm always happy to be corrected and learn something new), I always thought a high impedance signal pretty much interacts with anything and everything in it's path!

 

[FractalAudio]

Thank you for looking at this Cliff.

I'm not at all meaning to do a disservice to your amazing product, but it's something I've noticed since I've owned it.

Please correct me if I'm wrong (I'm always happy to be corrected and learn something new), I always thought a high impedance signal pretty much interacts with anything and everything in it's path!

The input to a tube amp is extremely high impedance. Typically 100 times greater than the impedance of the guitar or more. There is far more "interaction" with the cable than the impedance of the amp.

 

[edo]

I don't have an answer because I don't experience this. Guitars don't "interact" with the front end of an amp.

In my experience, a strat/lp sounds like a strat/lp either way, plugged into the axe and plugged into a real amp. But I must admit that if I mess around with pick up height (like i did a while ago on one of my strats) changes are much more pronounced through the axe (in a good way, meaning that I can actually hear a clear difference before screwing all the way up/down!)

 

[Rook]

My guitars are a lot more variable since I got the Axe, to the point where I have started swapping pickups out again. This is as opposed to the Digitech 2101 I was using before. Great unit, but whatever you plugged in came out sounding pretty much the same. I see this (hearing the subtle differences between guitars) as a GOOD thing.

 

[EricP1954]

So...now can we all admit sharing presets was a stupid idea to begin with?

I never understood the popularity of the concept, because everyone's speakers/guitars sound so drastically different with the Axe...

I completely disagree with this statement. That statement actually sounds very narrow-minded to me.

Sharing presets is not a stupid idea. Presets are just not a panacea (to borrow the term from Cooper Carter). It's just a good beginning.

It reminds me of the Line 6 Vetta/Variax tone guide. I used to own a Vetta II, Variax and their Floorboard and the goal was to hit a preset and the guitar and amp would meld togther into one given tone. They even used to show little pictures of either humbuckers or single coils on their site, next to the name of the preset. Axe-Change doesn't do that, but some common sense needs to be applied. A heavy, high-gain preset designed for a 7-string guitar probably isn't going to sound right with a Strat. Even different output pickups of the same type or different positions (bridge vs neck) are going to make a preset sound differently.

If the preset is treated as a basis and then further refined, the Axe-Change can be an invaluable resource.

Although I don't recall specifically whether Chris Katsku Kuri or Cooper Carter came up with the idea, you can even develop separate banks or scenes for your different guitars to play through a list of favorite presets.

 

[zenaxe]

So...now can we all admit sharing presets was a stupid idea to begin with?

I never understood the popularity of the concept, because everyone's speakers/guitars sound so drastically different with the Axe...

I think sharing presets is awesome. I have learned tons about FX routing and preset layout from shared patches. A lot of FX settings transfer 100% and many of the amp patches provide awesome starting points. I can easily roll off the highs for a patch that is 90% of the way there but a bit bright with my guitar. Heck, I often have a guitar that is similar to whoever posted the patch and can pick an appropriate guitar based on the target style and pickup config.

So, no, *we* can't. If you don't like them; don't partake.

 

[shasha]

The input to a tube amp is extremely high impedance. Typically 100 times greater than the impedance of the guitar or more. There is far more "interaction" with the cable than the impedance of the amp.

What about the impedance selection on the AxeFXII? That has to have a similar effect as changing a cable does because both change the resonant peak as far as I know. That would be similar interaction from my layman's perspective.

 

[paulmapp8306]

Hum. I almost always use amp/cab not FRFR - and I cant say my guitars react differently verses my valve combo (Fender Machete). If anything, my Tele in particular seems to make a bigger difference on the amp . Not by much but if there is a difference at all its with that guitar, and its more pronounced on the amp v AFX.

 

[vinnieRice]

I too have experienced this phenomena where the difference in guitars seems more prominent on the AFX. I suspect there are a couple of reasons a) the front end on the AFX is of very high quality and b) the difference is masked somewhat in real amps by the usual mains hum, circuit noise and physical rattle of an amp at volume.

I know Cliff will HATE this idea but I think it would be fun and a quite educational to have a 'Amp Noise Effects' generator block that reproduces 50/60 cycle hum and the accurate noise of different tube circuits. These low-level signals are quite important in fooling the brain of that final 1% of 'realism'. I used to work in 3D modelling and visual effects and a huge proportion of our time was spent in adding noise and random imperfections.

Am I crazy?

 

[barhrecords]

I too have experienced this phenomena where the difference in guitars seems more prominent on the AFX. I suspect there are a couple of reasons a) the front end on the AFX is of very high quality and b) the difference is masked somewhat in real amps by the usual mains hum, circuit noise and physical rattle of an amp at volume.

This is what I think too. The Fractal front end is so much better than a tube amp front end it preserves more of the guitar's inherent character.

This is a good thing

 

[Sixstring]

I only use one guitar so I haven't noticed a thing :mrgreen

 

[Coldsummer]

I've noticed a considerable difference too, always put it down to differences in the pick-up outputs so I adjust the level (mainly) to compensate but sometimes the tone parameters need to be tweaked. A patch created with my Musicman Albert Lee will be virtually unplayable with say a PRS 408 unless it's adjusted, more noticeable on clean tones. Compared to my small tube amp (Tone-King Falcon), both guitars will sound different but useable, just a slight change in character.

 

[zenaxe]

I too have experienced this phenomena where the difference in guitars seems more prominent on the AFX. I suspect there are a couple of reasons a) the front end on the AFX is of very high quality and b) the difference is masked somewhat in real amps by the usual mains hum, circuit noise and physical rattle of an amp at volume.

I haven't noticed it at all, but then again I have stopped using traditional amps so most of it is from memory. When reading the OP, I was thinking along the lines of the second point above, I figured his difference in perception might have something to do with volume in a couple of contexts: both virtual and physical. Specifically, for virtual, how is the *master* on the amp set IRL vs AFX? On the AF you can dime a master on the virtual power amp but still have low volume levels, this is impossible on a real amp... if you have a very high MV setting on the Axe but a significantly mismatched setting on the real amp I would fully expect you to get an invalid comparison. Also, in the physical realm, if the physical amp (as most tube amps are) is way loud vs the compared signal on the modeler you would get an Apples to Oranges scenario as well.

Volume is a big deal.

 

[Hotplate]

I too have experienced this phenomena where the difference in guitars seems more prominent on the AFX. I suspect there are a couple of reasons a) the front end on the AFX is of very high quality and b) the difference is masked somewhat in real amps by the usual mains hum, circuit noise and physical rattle of an amp at volume.

Same here.. I've noticed this as well, from when I first got the Axe FX II. I tend to play with lower to medium gain these days and use a lot of dynamics so I think these subtleties are more apparent to me than if I were playing high gain/highly compressed tones. I like this aspect of the Axe FX quite a bit though- really makes each guitar's characteristics stand out that much more. It does require building individual/specific presets for each guitar, but I prefer that anyway.

This is yet another aspect of this technology that I appreciate..

 

[dr bonkers]

So...now can we all admit sharing presets was a stupid idea to begin with?

I never understood the popularity of the concept, because everyone's speakers/guitars sound so drastically different with the Axe...

I don't know about that.

I have many presets that I have downloaded either from the forum or the Axe Change that sound good with my guitars with no tweaking.

For others, I do find the need to EQ somewhat, but that could be due to hearing, monitoring, playing, or guitar differences.

I wouldn't call it a stupid idea in the least.

 

[Raab90]

As a guy who has to switch from his Axe -> Matrix -> FRFR 2x12 and an Orange TH30 -> 2x12 all day, I feel no such difference in responsiveness. I mean, surely the AXE as some models that are more responsive than others but in anycase, the differences in tone while swapping guitars is whole using both the axe and the real amp are the same to me.

One thing to consider though, If you wanna compare your 5150 with the AXE, use them both cranked at the same intensity compared to your room level (db). It's most lileky to be a level perception issue. At high levels there is no much difference. But you do hear it on the recorded track. This even happened with my POD X3 Live years ago. Live sound was stable, recorded (real amp or pod) wasn't.