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Question For Cliff regarding the Buttery model...

maschoff

Experienced
I've played a friend's for a couple of weeks a couple years back and this model is remarkably close. Better than the original which was very brittle in comparison.
 

unix-guy

Legend!
It sounds very close to the SuperDrive clean, which is the amp the Axe FX replaced for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

ethomas1013

Power User
I've played a friend's for a couple of weeks a couple years back and this model is remarkably close. Better than the original which was very brittle in comparison.
Don't know if you played s Series II amp, but the original amps sound a lot different/smoother than the Series II amps. And I personally think the combos do not sound anywhere near as good as my head 2x12. I've owned my SD30 since 2001 and definitely do not agree with your assessment.

It sounds very close to the SuperDrive clean, which is the amp the Axe FX replaced for me. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The AxeII model definitely has a lot more gain than the clean channel on my SD30.
 

unix-guy

Legend!
The model is supposed to be based on the VerbMaster, not the SD... I have 2 SD II 18W, a 1x12 and a 2x12... It's pretty close... I do find that it is gainier, but easy enough to dial in.

(Edited to fix stupid autocorrect errors)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

maschoff

Experienced
Don't know if you played s Series II amp, but the original amps sound a lot different/smoother than the Series II amps. And I personally think the combos do not sound anywhere near as good as my head 2x12. I've owned my SD30 since 2001 and definitely do not agree with your assessment.



The AxeII model definitely has a lot more gain than the clean channel on my SD30.
It was an original Budda Twinmaster 2x12 combo amp; pre Peavey acquisition. It was brittle as hell. I even used it to slave one of my 2x12s, no difference.
 

unix-guy

Legend!
And I just realized that the model is based on the TwinMaster...:(

Also there were plenty of pre-Peavey Series II amps made. Both of mine are.


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5150

Inspired
Today I was making a video demoing the factory patch and was referencing the wiki and it got me wondering, is the model that's in the Axe still the one you tuned by ear or did you ever get around to actually mimic'ing with a real amp or schematic? It sounds fantastic either way, I was just curious.

Great vid, BTW! I really enjoyed that, and it's convinced me to revisit this model. Nice playing too. :)
 

ethomas1013

Power User
Ok, the Twinmaster and Verbmaster are quite different amps than the SuperDrive. They don't have anywhere near as much gain as the SD30. But the clean channel of the SD30 is not that different than a TM. I have owned a TM and a VM, and would not describe any of them as "brittle". YMMV
 

leagueofkruger

Inspired
Tube amps are all roughly the same. You can make one sound pretty close to another with EQ. Shape the input, shape the output. Maybe play with the balance of preamp to power amp distortion.
The magic is gone. Don't tell the marketing department this little nugget!!! Axe FX III will have a lot less buttons and pages!!!
 

happycritter

Inspired
Yup. It's even more than that though. Tube amps are all roughly the same. You can make one sound pretty close to another with EQ. Shape the input, shape the output. Maybe play with the balance of preamp to power amp distortion.
Cliff is probably too busy to elaborate, so speaking in very general terms:

There are, in general, only three unique topologies that cover the overwhelming majority of amplifiers that mainstream musicians use (recall: Marshalls were copies of Fenders). The Vox AC-xx is close to a Fender/Marshall preamp with cathode-biased output section (unique). The Orange/MATAMP have a more/less generic two-stage preamp w/ selectable decoupling capacitors into a cathodyne phase inverter whereas the others (Fender/Marshall/variants) have a long-tail-pair phase inverter, which makes these among the horde: unique... Then there's the Hiwatt which had various revisions, etc., however, it had a unique 'Presence' circuit and some had their phase inverter directly fed by a cathode follower (of course, there was also the appearance of the 12BH7 and drastically different resistances on the screens/grids of the power tubes.

So, in a nutshell, you clone a Fender/Marshall/Soldano (Marshall II + cascaded gain stage)/Dual-Rectifier (Soldano copy)/ 5150 (Soldano copy) / Budda / Friedman / etc. and move a few wires around, change a few values, and viola! A different amp appears - in theory ;). The science of it is simple, the art of it is entirely another matter.

Simplifying the gain stages as EQ's with gain and you can see why Cliff's comment holds (so long as distortions of stages are kept at an apples-to-apples relationship). Hopefully that helps for those who are more inquisitive.
 
I like the Buttery amp quite a lot. After the Hiwatts, It is my go to amp for crunch tones for recording. MV at ten. FET boost in the front. Gives nice clean break up with note clarity but still has girth and fullness w/o flub. I agree the other posters, if a real one is ever modeled precisely, please, please keep the original as FAS Buttery.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
How's about a Quantum'd / G3'd version for accuracy's sake, as was done with the JMP? :D
It's not possible because there is no real amp to match it to. Buttery is a virtual amp model that was created by ear. There is no physical, real amp that exists upon which it was based. It's like the FAS models. They exist solely in the virtual world. They all still benefit from the Quantum stuff though as they use the same underlying algorithms for the tube modeling.

The amp model, regardless of how accurate it is (and it's probably grossly inaccurate as I never compared it to any actual amp) is very popular and that's why it was never matched to any real amp.

We do have a Budda Twinmaster around here somewhere and we can do a model of that when we get some time.
 
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