Question about IR issues

eljodon

eljodon

Experienced
I've never used really used IR's because I didn't like the way they sounded. But I started experimenting with Cab Lab 3 and when I use it with the Axe Fx 2 and load an IR like the Cab Pack 13 it sounded great while playing it without saving it to my Axe Fx 2. Once I load the IR that I saved in my Axe Fx 2, the IR sounds dark. I've been resisting using IR's because I though they sounded dark, but when I use Cab Lab 3 while I'm testing it in the scratchpad it sound the way it should sound.
Does anyone know if I'm doing something wrong? I've been using the Axe Fx 2 with a 2 90 power amp and 2 Marshall cabs, but I need to slim down my system because I have a bad back and I can't keep carrying a heavy tube power amp and 2 heavy 4 x 12 cabs so I'm looking at different options.
 
eljodon said:
I've never used really used IR's because I didn't like the way they sounded...I've been using the Axe Fx 2 with a 2 90 power amp and 2 Marshall cabs...
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There's the problem. An IR models a guitar cab. But you're already using a guitar cab. So when you're using an IR, you're essentially miking a guitar cab and then playing it through a guitar cab. That's going to sound very dark.

When you use Cab-Lab, I'll bet you're playing through full-range monitors, no? That's how IRs are supposed to be heard.

In my rig at home, I always play through studio monitors. For me, IRs sound identical, whether I'm using Cab-Lab or not.
 
Rex said:
There's the problem. An IR models a guitar cab. But you're already using a guitar cab. So when you're using an IR, you're essentially miking a guitar cab and then playing it through a guitar cab. That's going to sound very dark.

When you use Cab-Lab, I'll bet you're playing through full-range monitors, no? That's how IRs are supposed to be heard.

In my rig at home, I always play through studio monitors. For me, IRs sound identical, whether I'm using Cab-Lab or not.
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Thanks for your response. I think I wasn't clear, sorry. I'm using my studio speakers(Dynaudio BM6 with BM9s subs) I'm not talking about using my 4 x 12 cabs with the IRs. When I import the IR from the Cab Lab 3 to my Axe Fx while listening to my studio monitor, the IR sounds darker. Something dramatic happens to the IR when it gets imported!
I want to leave my cabs home and use full range speakers for live playing. I've never liked IR because they always sounded darker and to my surprise, when I was monitoring the new IR's that I bought through the Cab Lab, it sounded great. Perhaps I'm missing something?
 
barhrecords said:
Is it possible some settings in the cab block are causing the difference?
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Thanks for your response. I thought that that might be the problem but is wasn't. The difference is quite dramatic, is like all the "air" and sparkle is gone. I've been using the Axe Fx for 5 years 99% of the time with 4 x 12 cabs, but I've done recording with Ir's before. When I opened the IR with Cab Lab just using the scratchpad, I was blown away how good it sounded, only to be disappointed when I saved the IR into my Axe Fx 2. It sounds like a low pass filter was applied to the IR. And I didn't touch the eq's on Cab Lab which is set 20Hz and 20kHz by default.
 
Weird. I just noticed this exact same behavior that the OP is describing yesterday. Scratch pad was sounding great then when saved to the unit...bleh.

Any ideas? It's a pretty big issue that I've never encountered before. Turning the AIR parameter up in the cab block seems to help a little. That doesn't explain the quite noticeable drop in IR quality going from scratchpad to saved in the unit though.
 
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shodan5000 said:
Weird. I just noticed this exact same behavior that the OP is describing yesterday. Scratch pad was sounding great then when saved to the unit...bleh.

Any ideas? It's a pretty big issue that I've never encountered before. Turning the AIR parameter up in the cab block seems to help a little. That doesn't explain the quite noticeable drop in IR quality going from scratchpad to saved in the unit though.
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I think I'm having a similar issue to what you're experiencing. In Cab Lab 3, I've loaded up 8 IRs that are all very different sounding. Set the Processing Mode to "None" and sent each individual IR to my unit. When I select the newly imported IRs in my user bank, all 8 of them sound identical. The file names are correct, but there is no tonal change between different speaker types or mic positions. When I go back to the scratchpad, everything sounds as it should. I've rebooted the Axe, closed and reopened AE and CL3 and nothing seems to work.

I'm sure it's probably something simple that I've overlooked, but if anyone has any advice, I'd really appreciate it.
 
Something is different that doesn't exist when you're using Cab-Lab. IRs don't change when you load them into a slot.
 
Rex said:
IRs don't change when you load them into a slot.
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Well, that's the expected behavior. But yet there is a dark, muffled quality to the IR's once saved and used in the cab block. Not just one specific IR either. I've attempted to isolate the issue by testing several third party IR's, resetting the cab block and preset and yet this very noticeable tone change persists.
 
Rex said:
Something is different that doesn't exist when you're using Cab-Lab. IRs don't change when you load them into a slot.
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I was really getting exited that Ir's are sounding better. Before I always though they sounded dark. When I was audition it I was seriously thinking of changing to full range speakers and using Ir',s retiring my Marshall cabs, but I was very disappointed after I imported the IR's to my Axe Fx 2. It was like night and day. I most be doing something wrong! I tried importing the IR's that came with the Cab Lab 3 and the results were the same, dark sounding with no top end. Like I stated before, I've always use a Mesa 2 90 with 2 Marshall cabs which I'm getting tired of lifting, but this set up always sounded much better to me. If the IR would sound like the first time I loaded it using Cab Lab 3 on the scratchpad, it would be great because it sounded awesome! I bought thousands of IR's looking for the tone I want and none of them worked.
 
I just tried it on my Mark I. I can hear no difference between an IR saved to a Scratchpad location and one saved to a user cabinet. Which makes sense, because the scratchpads are just another set of user slots on the Axe-Fx.

You guys having problems: what version of the hardware do you have?
 
I have the latest Cab Lab, Axe FX Mk 2 with Quantum 2.04. So I'm definitely doing something wrong! I'm using Cab Pack 13. Maybe I'm missing a step when I'm saving the IR. Thanks for checking out!
 
Try going into Axe-Edit and copying the IR in the scratchpad to a user slot. Do they sound the same afterward?
 
Rex said:
I just tried it on my Mark I. I can hear no difference between an IR saved to a Scratchpad location and one saved to a user cabinet. Which makes sense, because the scratchpads are just another set of user slots on the Axe-Fx.

You guys having problems: what version of the hardware do you have?
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I've got an XL with CL3 and running 2.04. After a series cycle of loading...deleting...rebooting...exiting out of CL and AE...etc. It just worked suddenly. There was definitely an issue, but I'm not sure how it got resolved. Very bizarre occurrence.

Last night, I would load an IR into my unit, select it, then copied X to Y in the cab block so everything was exactly the same between X and Y. Then I made Y the Scratchpad and soloed out the IR I imported into my unit. Toggling between X and Y should have no effect on the sound if the scratchpad IR is the same as the IR selected in the unit, but I was getting two different speaker sounds when I would toggle between the IR saved in the unit and IR from CL3. Not a subtle change, but a very drastic change.

Anywho, if anyone else if having a similar issue, I would suggest closing out of AE, Fractal Bot, and CL. Reboot your Axe and try it again.
 
jlynnb1 said:
how are you saving them? are you just sending them from one of the 8 slots in cablab?
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Yeah, not making mixes or anything. Just sending single IRs by hitting the arrow button in each CL IR slot. That was the weird thing. All the file names were correct, but each IR was the same regardless of cab/speaker type.
 
eljodon said:
Thanks for your response. I thought that that might be the problem but is wasn't. The difference is quite dramatic, is like all the "air" and sparkle is gone. I've been using the Axe Fx for 5 years 99% of the time with 4 x 12 cabs, but I've done recording with Ir's before. When I opened the IR with Cab Lab just using the scratchpad, I was blown away how good it sounded, only to be disappointed when I saved the IR into my Axe Fx 2. It sounds like a low pass filter was applied to the IR. And I didn't touch the eq's on Cab Lab which is set 20Hz and 20kHz by default.
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Do you mean sending the IR to the Axe-Fx's scratchpad or do you mean using Cab-Lab as the IR processor? There are two ways to use Cab-Lab: 1. You can use it as a stand-alone IR processor and process the audio through it or 2. Use it to load IRs into the Axe-Fx (either a user slot or one of the scratchpad locations).

The way you are using it is important for us to determine if this is a bug.
 
FractalAudio said:
Do you mean sending the IR to the Axe-Fx's scratchpad or do you mean using Cab-Lab as the IR processor? There are two ways to use Cab-Lab: 1. You can use it as a stand-alone IR processor and process the audio through it or 2. Use it to load IRs into the Axe-Fx (either a user slot or one of the scratchpad locations).

The way you are using it is important for us to determine if this is a bug.
Click to expand...

For myself, I am using Cab-Lab to audition to a scratchpad location and then to load into an actual user slot. However, I get the same problem loading IR's using the Axe-Manage Cabs option in Axe-Edit as well.
 
shodan5000 said:
For myself, I am using Cab-Lab to audition to a scratchpad location and then to load into an actual user slot. However, I get the same problem loading IR's using the Axe-Manage Cabs option in Axe-Edit as well.
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Please list in detail the exact steps. I'm not sure you are using the term "scratchpad" properly.
 
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