Problems with "mute fx out" bypass mode

AndyKay

AndyKay

Member
I try to understand the influence of the bypass mode parameters "thru", "mute fx out" and "mute fx in" on the level of DIRECT SOUND for DELAY1, REVERB, etc. blocks when used in series.

I only mention the DELAY1 block here (REVERB, etc. behave the same):

- I use DELAY1 block (in series)
- MIX is 50%, LEVEL is 0dB, Balance is 0.0
- I set this block to BYPASS (with SPACE key)
- now, I compare the level of my direct sound in
1) "thru" bypass mode
2) "Mute fx in" bypass mode
3) "Mute fx out" bypass mode

Result:
1) and 2) deliver the same level of direct sound.
3) delivers a lower direct sound level of my guitar.

But this seems strange to me... and it is annoying, when trying to give different presets the same level of direct sound.

According to this picture:
upload_2016-11-18_23-55-50.png

"Mute fx in" and "Mute fx out" should deliver absolutely the same direct level in bypass mode, or am I missing something?

Thanks, Andy


Firmware:
AX8 - Quantum 5.01
 
The Delay and Reverb blocks use a different mix law. When using Mute FX Out the dry level will be dependent on the mix. To get the behavior you desire simply use the Thru mode.
 
Hi FractalAudio,

yes, the dry level is dependent on the mix in both cases "Mute FX out" and "Mute FX in".
(using "thru" could be a workaround, but "thru" is not 'listening' to the dry signal....)

But I don't understand, why the dry level is different in case of "Mute FX in" and "mute FX out", even if I don't touch the MIX knob (@50%).
Normally, I would assume the dry level to be absolutely the same, no matter if I choose "Mute FX in" or "Mute FX out".

Do you have the same experience? Have you tried it out? I think it's a difference of 3 or 6 dB.

The fact that the dry level is different when using "Mute FX in" or "mute FX out" seems confusing to me and makes problems to adjust the loudness of two presets.
 
I would just put your reverb and delay in parallel, set Mix to 100% and use the level to control the effect volume. If you then use Mute FX in, your trails will still continue with no loss in volume, etc.
 
Do a search for delay mix law either here or the wiki. I can't remember exactly how it works but there is a reason why it's more complicated than you would think
 
So do you want to use mute fx out? If I recall back in the day it was said that in series you use thru and the other options were for when using parallel
 
It doesn't seem like any reply so far realized or addressed your actual question.

"Mute FX In" and "Mute FX Out" should output the same dry level as each other, with no change in dry level between engaged & bypassed.

Try listening for a difference between the two bypass modes while the block is bypassed. Even better, send a synth block test tone through delay and check the VU meter value. Maybe you're perceiving the instant wet signal muting as a drop in dry level when using Mute FX Out.
 
In the last few days, I have made some tests. Here are my results:

- I will use both DELAY and REVERB blocks in series
- both blocks are set to THRU (bypass mode)

If I want my "direct"-signal to have absolutely the same level, when DELAY or REVERB are engaged or not engaged, I have to do the following different(!) settings for DELAY and REVERB:


- DELAY:
- Mix: 50%
- Level: 0 dB

- REVERB:
- Mix: 50%
- Level: 3 dB


I don't really understand this different behaviour of the blocks, but now I'm happy :)
 
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