Power Amp Modeling with SS Power Amp + Direct FOH Setup

S

ScottCryptodira

Member
Hi all! Apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere but after some searching I couldn’t find much on my particular question.

I’m interesting in switching to a hybrid setup for live shows, as in direct to FOH + solid state PA and cab. I’ll likely be grabbing a Powerstage 700.

I know typically you turn power amp modeling OFF in the amp block when running through a power amp. However, since I’d be also running through FOH I’d like to leave it on so the house is getting the fully modeled signal.

I’ve seen a few people suggest running an entire copy of the signal chain, including a copy of the amp block, to whatever output is going to the poweramp and just turn off the PA modeling in that amp block. That all makes perfect sense, but the problem I’m having is that I already use both amp blocks in my setup to achieve gapless switching.

Any suggestions here? Should I just leave the PA modeling on since the Powerstage is a flat, solid state power amp anyway? I’ve heard this all matters much more if you’re going into a tube amp and that leaving the modeling on while using a SS power amp isn’t a big deal.

Thanks in advance!
 
Seymour Duncan recommends turning off power amp simulations with this amp for "optimal results". One of the reasons people like these good SS amps like this is because they are designed to sound like good guitar amps, not neutral or flat.
 
Kelleys Heroes said:
Seymour Duncan recommends turning off power amp simulations with this amp for "optimal results". One of the reasons people like these good SS amps like this is because they are designed to sound like good guitar amps, not neutral or flat.
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Yeah, I figured that’s the case for “optimal” results, but I suppose I’d have to roll the dice seeing as how I’m using both amp blocks already and can’t do the copy method. If I turn off PA modeling in my current setup it would turn it off for FOH too and that certainly would sound worse
 
I have the power stage 200, and it just didn’t sound right until I turned the power amp simulation off. Once it was off, everything sounded like a real amplifier like it should. With it on, it was just muffled and muted.
 
It's up to your personal taste, whether you prefer the SD 700's "power amp simulation" or you prefer Fractal Audio FM9's. But don't use both at the same time!
 
ScottCryptodira said:
Yeah, I figured that’s the case for “optimal” results, but I suppose I’d have to roll the dice seeing as how I’m using both amp blocks already and can’t do the copy method. If I turn off PA modeling in my current setup it would turn it off for FOH too and that certainly would sound worse
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You might ask yourself if this feature set is the best method for you to use. Only you can decide, but it seems like this amp is designed to sound at least somewhat like a tube amp, plus it also includes cab emulation which also seem unnecessary. SS does not necessarily equal flat/neutral.
 
One possible option would be to use the cabinet simulation built-in the powerstage to send to FoH. The downside of course is you lose the IRs.
 
Kelleys Heroes said:
You might ask yourself if this feature set is the best method for you to use. Only you can decide, but it seems like this amp is designed to sound at least somewhat like a tube amp, plus it also includes cab emulation which also seem unnecessary. SS does not necessarily equal flat/neutral.
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The cabinet emulation is a simple switch on the back that can be turned off very easily. I think I’m only interested in this particular PA because so many guys in my little world of music are rolling with them and they seem to sound awesome
 
toesalad said:
One possible option would be to use the cabinet simulation built-in the powerstage to send to FoH. The downside of course is you lose the IRs.
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And you'd lose the flexibility to change from one amp type to another in the modeler and have the power amp respond correctly.

The more things you take out of the modeler's control, the less it's able to help provide a realistic sound, which then falls onto the user to recreate and maintain.
 
ScottCryptodira said:
I guess then my next question would be if the Powerstage 700 could be considered “neutral” or not haha
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I hadn't heard this was considered to be a neutral amp from anyone other than you! Caveat Emptor

From Seymour Duncan's website:

Tech Tips:​

Because PowerStage is voiced like a guitar power section, you may want to remove the digital power amp simulation from your modeled tones for optimum results.​

 
While class D amp modules typically have a pancake flat response, I would seek confirmation from SD that the PS700 tone circuitry is capable of a flat response before dropping $700 on it, otherwise i simply don't see the point.

$700 buys any number of powerful Class D based Bass amps with an aux in, (which will go direct to the power amp and bypass the tone controls) and you can build your own class D amp with parts from Parts Express and cases from Ghent Audio (if you need a case).. using the same IcePower Modules that SD uses... and likely sound better than the SD counterpart as you skip volume and tone circuitry as this is all in the FM9
 
Kelleys Heroes said:
I hadn't heard this was considered to be a neutral amp from anyone other than you! Caveat Emptor

From Seymour Duncan's website:

Tech Tips:​

Because PowerStage is voiced like a guitar power section, you may want to remove the digital power amp simulation from your modeled tones for optimum results.​

Click to expand...
i "liked" your post but frankly "SMH" is more like it.. as the amp is therefore clearly NOT for modelers.. lol
 
ScottCryptodira said:
I guess then my next question would be if the Powerstage 700 could be considered “neutral” or not haha
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It's easy to figure out. From their literature…
  • True Cab Circuitry (TCC)™
  • 3 band EQ
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Neither of those would be "neutral" or "flat" if used, so disable the first and set the second so it is flat.

I would look for something without EQ or any fancy tricks. Spend the money on something that is solely focused on amplifying, not trying to imitate a guitar amp because the money they spent putting that stuff in is coming from your pocket and it's not as capable as what you already have which runs circles around it when it comes to sounding like an amp or adjusting EQ.
 
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Kelleys Heroes said:
Setting EQ to flat gives a flat response, regardless of the voicing of the amp?
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I didn't say that.

Turning off the voicing and setting the controls to flat is the starting point. Since we have no idea what it's doing inside and they aren't proud enough to say, I wouldn't look at it.
 
Seymour Duncan customer support told me that the amp is flat with the EQ knobs at noon.

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That said, I do think it colors the tone. I did a direct comparison of the Power Stage 700 and a QSC RMX2450. I found that the Duncan had less low end depth and more top end happening. Here's the thread if you're interested.

 

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