POLL: The most accurate PAF replica...

[Churchhill]

These are my favorite. I have them in a 335 right now and they are amazing!

Sounds great! I don't think I've heard of them before. Thanks for posting this!!

 

[Churchhill]

Clipped the bright cap in my 75 100w, no difference

Yeah, didn't seem to make much difference in those mid-70s amps, made more impact in the early '80s ones, but in my case, those were Master Models and a JCM800 where I don't always run the pre on 10.

 

[Churchhill]

Yes. And significantly more of that particular tone and feel than the Fishman Fluence, or the Lollar High Wind, for that matter. I'm really coming around to those, even though I prefer passive. the Fluence are, overall, more open.

TBH, I haven't tried the Fluence. I used EMGs for years a long time ago, got away from actives, and haven't looked back. I don't think that's a fair comparison on my part, though, because from everything I've heard, Fluence don't sound like EMGs at all.

 

[pima1234]

TBH, I haven't tried the Fluence. I used EMGs for years a long time ago, got away from actives, and haven't looked back. I don't think that's a fair comparison on my part, though, because from everything I've heard, Fluence don't sound like EMGs at all.

I absolutely prefer passive though. Hands down.

My guitar with the PGs is shielded, so that helps when they're split.

 

[Vhalen50]

TBH, I haven't tried the Fluence. I used EMGs for years a long time ago, got away from actives, and haven't looked back. I don't think that's a fair comparison on my part, though, because from everything I've heard, Fluence don't sound like EMGs at all.

Man i went down the road with fluence and hated every set personally except the pure single coil set. I have a set of classics and devins...they just have this missing feeling in them to me. Plus the wiring job is tedious and takes a while. The worst was when i did a HSH with their confusing to order middle single coil that doesnt come in the single coil set.

One thing I admire about EMG's is that...they are EMG, they know what sound they want and they are so consistently that sound for 20+ years.

On topic, the PRS 58/15LT pickup might be the finest PAF style ive ever played...yet.

 

[lscottk]

Man i went down the road with fluence and hated every set personally except the pure single coil set. I have a set of classics and devins...they just have this missing feeling in them to me. Plus the wiring job is tedious and takes a while. The worst was when i did a HSH with their confusing to order middle single coil that doesnt come in the single coil set.

One thing I admire about EMG's is that...they are EMG, they know what sound they want and they are so consistently that sound for 20+ years.

On topic, the PRS 58/15LT pickup might be the finest PAF style ive ever played...yet.

I considered trying the Fluence HBs, but steered clear because of the required wiring and supporting electronics. I might have taken the plunge, but I've never tried them. I decided it was too much hassle just to see if I liked them.

 

[woodbutcher65]

There's so much variation between original PAFs, it's pointless to ask which one is the most accurate.

You can't really tell the difference on a recording anyway.

I use Seymour Duncan 59s and that does just fine for me. Or Gibson '57 Classic+'s.

I sure can't afford to buy the whole list of pickups to try them.

 

[pima1234]

I considered trying the Fluence HBs, but steered clear because of the required wiring and supporting electronics. I might have taken the plunge, but I've never tried them. I decided it was too much hassle just to see if I liked them.

I'm definitely appreciating the responses about the Fluence pickups. Trying to decide on what to do with a new build. But, I definitely lean toward the noiseless PU options. Maybe I need to reconsider and go with another option. I was also considering the Lace Alumitones (yes, I know...) for this particular build.

 

[Vhalen50]

I considered trying the Fluence HBs, but steered clear because of the required wiring and supporting electronics. I might have taken the plunge, but I've never tried them. I decided it was too much hassle just to see if I liked them.

for what its worth, if you buy the fluence sets...they come with everything youll need. Typically 2 25k pots and 2 25k push pull pots. But yeah, it s a total gut job to install...then you gotta add the battery somewhere.

i find the classics to sound okay, but the single coil sound in them to be the most anemic gutless sound and theres zero control on changing the sound. Passive pickups you can experiment with capacitors and resistors and tailor the sound to you.

 

[pima1234]

for what its worth, if you buy the fluence sets...they come with everything youll need. Typically 2 25k pots and 2 25k push pull pots. But yeah, it s a total gut job to install...then you gotta add the battery somewhere.

i find the classics to sound okay, but the single coil sound in them to be the most anemic gutless sound and theres zero control on changing the sound. Passive pickups you can experiment with capacitors and resistors and tailor the sound to you.

Yes, I've been on their wiring diagrams page, and it's overloading my brain a little. So, I reached out to them to see about a specific configuration.

Their 5-way Super Switch already accomplishes quite a bit. That can be combined with a mini-toggle (HSH to HH), and also a pull pot on the tone control for the modern humbucker voicing ("voice 2"). It's one of the HSH Tosin Abasi diagrams. If there is a way to split the pickups in HH mode (pull pot on the volume), that would cover all the bases. But, since the 5-way switch is already handling split in positions 2 & 4, that might not be possible.

And, there is no doubt that it still won't be the same as owning 3 or 4 different guitars with traditional pickups. There will be never anything quite like the "real" thing.

 

[GLiDE BPM]

Zhangbucker.com Love his pickups wound to the specs I describe in my pickup "interview".

 

[Churchhill]

Zhangbucker.com Love his pickups wound to the specs I describe in my pickup "interview".

I'd heard of Zhangbucker before, but I don't think anyone in this thread has mentioned them. Interesting info on their site. It looks like they don't offer "models" in the traditional sense, but rather wind everything to spec based on an "interview" with the customer. Just curious, what was this like in your case? Sounds like you're quite pleased with the result!

 

[Churchhill]

There's so much variation between original PAFs, it's pointless to ask which one is the most accurate.

You can't really tell the difference on a recording anyway.

I use Seymour Duncan 59s and that does just fine for me. Or Gibson '57 Classic+'s.

I sure can't afford to buy the whole list of pickups to try them.

Yeah, "PAF" is more a type than it is a specific sound. My original question was more about who used the most authentic/accurate materials and processes than it was about a specific sound. I've got several pickups that fall within "PAF" spec and wanted to find out what others experience was with similar types from different winders.

I started out looking for 3 new sets to try and, at this point, I've gotten 3 sets and will add a 4th at some point. The condensed version is one set of Gibson Custombuckers that I'm going to be doing some magnet swapping with; a set of Gibson '59 Collector's Edition #1 Humbuckers; and a set of Throbak DT-102s that I haven't installed yet. I just got them late last week and was out of town over the weekend.

I went with Throbak because, while there are several companies who have researched and (supposedly) done everything they could to duplicate the materials (specifically the magnets and other components of the magnetic circuit), there are only two that have the actual winding machines that were used by Gibson back then. Of those two, I already have a set of Seymour Duncan Antiquities, so I was left with Throbak. I'm not implying that others can't duplicate the winding patterns (and I'm sure several do, using CNC/automated winders), just that I preferred the actual machines.

I went with the Gibson Collector's Edition because I was curious how close they came to something like Throbak, who, based on several people's experience who have directly compared them to original PAFs, come extremely close to replicating both the physical and aesthetic aspects, and the sound, too.

I went with the Gibson Custombuckers because I already had another set of them that I'd planned on putting elsewhere because I liked the first pair I had. Thought it'd be a good opportunity to try them with different magnets.

I wish I had the money to try even one one-hundredth of what has been discussed here!


Edit: CNC, not CAD, basically a brainf@rt

 

[Churchhill]

@Andy Eagle - This one's for you and anyone else that wants to play along. Here's a picture of 9 pickups, a combination of BKP, Gibson, and Throbak.

Which is which?? I'll post the answer a week from tonight (just after midnight GMT on July 4th).

 

[Dave Merrill]

No clue!
Not in the slightest!
I just play my Collings with Throbaks and let the rest amuse you

 

[GLiDE BPM]

I'd heard of Zhangbucker before, but I don't think anyone in this thread has mentioned them. Interesting info on their site. It looks like they don't offer "models" in the traditional sense, but rather wind everything to spec based on an "interview" with the customer. Just curious, what was this like in your case? Sounds like you're quite pleased with the result!

I have 4 pairs of them... one is a Purewound set. I love them all.

 

[Churchhill]

I have 4 pairs of them... one is a Purewound set. I love them all.

When you did your pickup interview with them, did they ask typical questions or something else? How would that compare with what my description of what I was looking for? That description starts in the fifth paragraph of following post: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/poll-the-most-accurate-paf-replica.205557/post-2566096

 

[Churchhill]

No clue!
Not in the slightest!
I just play my Collings with Throbaks and let the rest amuse you

And give me an excuse to clean out (part of) my pickup drawer!! LOL

 

[GLiDE BPM]

When you did your pickup interview with them, did they ask typical questions or something else? How would that compare with what my description of what I was looking for? That description starts in the fifth paragraph of following post: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/poll-the-most-accurate-paf-replica.205557/post-2566096

Mine wasn't quite so complex, but if you hand that list to him, I'd bet money he can build them.

 

[Vhalen50]

Yes, I've been on their wiring diagrams page, and it's overloading my brain a little. So, I reached out to them to see about a specific configuration.

Their 5-way Super Switch already accomplishes quite a bit. That can be combined with a mini-toggle (HSH to HH), and also a pull pot on the tone control for the modern humbucker voicing ("voice 2"). It's one of the HSH Tosin Abasi diagrams. If there is a way to split the pickups in HH mode (pull pot on the volume), that would cover all the bases. But, since the 5-way switch is already handling split in positions 2 & 4, that might not be possible.

And, there is no doubt that it still won't be the same as owning 3 or 4 different guitars with traditional pickups. There will be never anything quite like the "real" thing.

Its possible. You gotta wrap your head around the fact that they dont really work like passive pickups. In position 2 and 4 its using a separate output on the pickup (called SCO) sent into the middle pickups preamp. That separate output is so low output and unusable without the middle. My HSH that i did i had the far tone do voice 3 (single coil) for positions 1/5 and the close tone did voice 2 on 1/5. 234 are controlled by the middle pickup...unless you want HH in the middle, you can...just more complicated wiring.