POLL: The most accurate PAF replica...

Who makes the most accurate PAF replica today? Must be new manufacture and under $2000 for the set.

  • Throbak (KZ-115, DT-120, SLE-101, EdA-Custom, etc.)

    Votes: 8 14.8%

  • ReWind

    Votes: 2 3.7%

  • Ron Ellis ('50s LRP)

    Votes: 1 1.9%

  • Stephens Design (HD Lab Humbuckers)

    Votes: 2 3.7%

  • Gibson (Custombuckers, Burstbucker I or II, MHS, 1959 Humbucker Collector’s Edition Series 1)

    Votes: 8 14.8%

  • Arcane (Triple Clone, 57 Experience, Tim Pierce Signature)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Klein (Epic Series Wicked, 1958 P.A.F., 1959 P.A.F)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Manlius (Landmark PAF, Hot Rod 59, 59LT)

    Votes: 1 1.9%

  • Sigil (Holy Grail 58, Holy Grail 59

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other (Vineham, Wolfetone, Shed, BKP, Fralin, Lollar, Seymour Duncan, Monty's, OX4, Wizz, etc.)

    Votes: 38 70.4%
  • Total voters
    54
SpudMan said:
He passed away in 2017. Not sure why they stopped putting Throbak's in but likely their cost was just adding to much to the list for a new CL.
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I suspect it just comes down to Lollars being really good pickups, so why start offering esoteric options? Having said that, Collings guitars are SO expensive (for once justifiably so might I add......) that it makes sense to offer REALLY EXPENSIVE pickups :D
 
Churchhill said:
Got a lot to report tonight, but to start... @David McCarroll - That V is from a kit? Looks awesome!

OK, received the Throbaks today. While I haven't had time to install them yet, and may not until next week (family coming tomorrow, then leaving for a short trip), I do have some initial observations.

First, here's the wiring kit. Looks very well done, including pre-tinning the backs of the pots to make that connection easier. As @lscottk mentioned, it doesn't take a lot of effort, but it definitely adds to the end-user experience and I'm glad they did. Saved me a step or two.

View attachment 141877


I pulled out of couple of the other pickups I have around to try, including a BKP Stormy Monday, a Gibson Custombucker, and the Throbak DT-102. Here's a picture of the covers side-by-side...

View attachment 141870


Anybody want to guess which is which??

The top seems to have slightly more rounded corners, but it is much less obvious in person. I was actually surprised how much they looked alike. The bottom has a significantly shape, more so than I thought it would. So I checked this one against an older one I have, and guess what... I think BKP has changed the shape of the corners of their covers. BTW, the middle is the Throbak and the top is the Gibson.

So, while the shape may have a small effect on the resulting sound, the next thing I noticed was the difference in the thickness of the material used for the covers. I didn't get out my calipers (I may later), but the Throbak material looks to be about a third thinner. I don't know how much, but I can see this affecting the magnetic field shape, size, and strength and that could be an audible change. Of course, it wouldn't matter if I took the covers off, but...

Here's the Throbak (left) and the Gibson (right)...

View attachment 141872

And here's the Throbak (right) and the BKP (left)...

View attachment 141873



Finally, and this is purely cosmetic, both Throbak and Gibson have the toolmarks on the baseplates. I have no idea which is more or less correct, and in this case, I don't really care. I do think it's cool that they included that detail.

View attachment 141874


A few other things I noticed... I ordered the BKP with short legs, so not fair to compare those. However, the BKP screw poles were noticeably shorter, maybe by 1/4" (didn't measure). And I know that's one way to affect the sound, it's part of some designs, and I've tried using different length screws before. I can only assume that this was done on purpose as part of the design BKP developed for this pickup, and it does sound really good, so no complaints.

I'm not going to take the covers off of these to compare further, although I'll take note of what I find when I fit the new magnets in the Custombuckers (I have 3 of them for this experiment).

Unfortunately, I'm running out of time tonight and I really wanted to hear these. Maybe not tonight, but tomorrow with any luck at all. I'll likely do the full run-through and capture some clips over the next week (maybe) or next weekend (more likely).


Edit: corrected problem with picture displaying inline
Click to expand...
I just decided which is which and then you tell us! you should have left it for us.
 
Churchhill said:
Got a lot to report tonight, but to start... @David McCarroll - That V is from a kit? Looks awesome!

OK, received the Throbaks today. While I haven't had time to install them yet, and may not until next week (family coming tomorrow, then leaving for a short trip), I do have some initial observations.

First, here's the wiring kit. Looks very well done, including pre-tinning the backs of the pots to make that connection easier. As @lscottk mentioned, it doesn't take a lot of effort, but it definitely adds to the end-user experience and I'm glad they did. Saved me a step or two.

View attachment 141877


I pulled out of couple of the other pickups I have around to try, including a BKP Stormy Monday, a Gibson Custombucker, and the Throbak DT-102. Here's a picture of the covers side-by-side...

View attachment 141870


Anybody want to guess which is which??

The top seems to have slightly more rounded corners, but it is much less obvious in person. I was actually surprised how much they looked alike. The bottom has a significantly shape, more so than I thought it would. So I checked this one against an older one I have, and guess what... I think BKP has changed the shape of the corners of their covers. BTW, the middle is the Throbak and the top is the Gibson.

So, while the shape may have a small effect on the resulting sound, the next thing I noticed was the difference in the thickness of the material used for the covers. I didn't get out my calipers (I may later), but the Throbak material looks to be about a third thinner. I don't know how much, but I can see this affecting the magnetic field shape, size, and strength and that could be an audible change. Of course, it wouldn't matter if I took the covers off, but...

Here's the Throbak (left) and the Gibson (right)...

View attachment 141872

And here's the Throbak (right) and the BKP (left)...

View attachment 141873



Finally, and this is purely cosmetic, both Throbak and Gibson have the toolmarks on the baseplates. I have no idea which is more or less correct, and in this case, I don't really care. I do think it's cool that they included that detail.

View attachment 141874


A few other things I noticed... I ordered the BKP with short legs, so not fair to compare those. However, the BKP screw poles were noticeably shorter, maybe by 1/4" (didn't measure). And I know that's one way to affect the sound, it's part of some designs, and I've tried using different length screws before. I can only assume that this was done on purpose as part of the design BKP developed for this pickup, and it does sound really good, so no complaints.

I'm not going to take the covers off of these to compare further, although I'll take note of what I find when I fit the new magnets in the Custombuckers (I have 3 of them for this experiment).

Unfortunately, I'm running out of time tonight and I really wanted to hear these. Maybe not tonight, but tomorrow with any luck at all. I'll likely do the full run-through and capture some clips over the next week (maybe) or next weekend (more likely).


Edit: corrected problem with picture displaying inline
Click to expand...
Thanks for all of these details. It's great to see the differences up close! I have to say that the covers on the Shed HA-59s look as good or better than the ones in your photos. The Shed's are brushed nickel and they look luxurious. I have no idea how period correct they are, though, because the only PAFs that I've played were in a '59 sunburst that I played in 1980. I remember that the guitar sounded tremendous, but it's been over 40 years, so I'm sure that what I remember is embellished by the passage of time. The guitar belonged to someone who was giving me a tour of GIT. Really nice guy. He told me that he paid $2500 for the '59. That seemed like a princely sum at the time. It's worth at least 100 times that now, so it reminds me of how I kept telling myself that Microsoft stock wasn't worth buying because it had reached it's ceiling. I was wrong on that one too! :cool:
 
I happened to listen to a rig rundown this morning for Don Felder. He talks about pickup replacements on the Les Pauls he buys from Gibson. Give it a listen if you're interested:

 
SpudMan said:
But if I understand what he is saying, he isn't installing SD pickups, but custom made pickups made at/by SD.
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Yeah, that's how I heard it too. More a story of interest than info on how to select pickups. I'd love to see the notes in that folder that "MJ" has. Lots of interesting information in there, I'm sure.
 
lscottk said:
Thanks for all of these details. It's great to see the differences up close! I have to say that the covers on the Shed HA-59s look as good or better than the ones in your photos. The Shed's are brushed nickel and they look luxurious. I have no idea how period correct they are, though, because the only PAFs that I've played were in a '59 sunburst that I played in 1980. I remember that the guitar sounded tremendous, but it's been over 40 years, so I'm sure that what I remember is embellished by the passage of time. The guitar belonged to someone who was giving me a tour of GIT. Really nice guy. He told me that he paid $2500 for the '59. That seemed like a princely sum at the time. It's worth at least 100 times that now, so it reminds me of how I kept telling myself that Microsoft stock wasn't worth buying because it had reached it's ceiling. I was wrong on that one too! :cool:
Click to expand...

I bet those Sheds DO look nice... I've got a set of brushed nickel BKPs and they are beautiful looking (and sounding).
 
Andy Eagle said:
:tearsofjoy: Yes but no one will believe me. The give away is the corners of the BKP and the wire braiding on the other two is different. You can just see it in the picture. In terms of looks the Gibson is finally right and the TB always was.
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Yeah, the BKPs are really obviously different. In person, they stick out like a sore thumb, more than in the pictures. Not that I think there's anything wrong with the way they look, rather, I've always thought they looked great and they are definitely great sounding and well-made. But, they are very different looking.

Honestly, I was rather amazed when I saw the Gibsons side-by-side with the Throbaks. I have no doubt that the TBs are authentic looking, I just always thought Gibson was a little off, corners and edges too rounded. But, like you pointed out, looks like they finally got the looks right, much better than anything I'd seen before

For anyone interested, the Gibson '59 Collectors Edition look just like the Custombuckers, except they don't have the date sticker on the bottom along with the "Patent Applied For" sticker they both have. The sound, however, is different, might say very different. They are both excellent sounding pickups, IMHO, with the differences being mostly (I believe) in the magnets. The Alnico 3 helps make the CBs very clear, bright, and uncompressed, but still full and warm. The Alnico 4 in the '59s Collectors is not quite as bright and a little more compressed. Dynamically, they are very easy to play and sound, well, delightful to me.

I'm hoping to get the Throbaks installed tonight, just to hear them, and I'm really looking forward to swapping some magnets in several of the Custombuckers I have. That, I think, will be really interesting, not just compared to the Throbaks, but compared to the '59 Collectors. Going to be an interesting weekend... :blush:
 
lscottk said:
Yeah, that's how I heard it too. More a story of interest than info on how to select pickups. I'd love to see the notes in that folder that "MJ" has. Lots of interesting information in there, I'm sure.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that, it was an interesting story! And yeah, that file would be almost a "holy grail" for pickup junkies (like me).
 
Budda said:
How many cb’s do you have?
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I've got 2 CBs installed in my R0 (stock) and 3 others not installed in anything, one of which I bought with the intent of swapping magnets and the other two that I was originally going to put in my 355 until I decided to see if I could find anything better.
 
Just chiming in after playing my guitar with the Throbak PAFs:

They are chewy, with plenty of low mids, Could be considered less open than some other pickups. Seems to depending on what I'm playing through. Tames a Plexi like no one's business though. Doesn't mind the bright switch at all, even when split.
 
pima1234 said:
Just chiming in after playing my guitar with the Throbak PAFs:

They are chewy, with plenty of low mids, Could be considered less open than some other pickups. Seems to depending on what I'm playing through. Tames a Plexi like no one's business though. Doesn't mind the bright switch at all, even when split.
Click to expand...

Sweet, that's good to hear! I always used to take the bright cap out of my Marshalls and continued to do so in my AxeFX, but finally found a sweet spot with it (thanks, again, to FAS). But, with some pickups, it can still get to be a bit much, more harsh than the brightness I've come to like. This has become one of the ways I judge pickups now, so it's good to hear this from your experience!
 
Churchhill said:
Sweet, that's good to hear! I always used to take the bright cap out of my Marshalls and continued to do so in my AxeFX, but finally found a sweet spot with it (thanks, again, to FAS). But, with some pickups, it can still get to be a bit much, more harsh than the brightness I've come to like. This has become one of the ways I judge pickups now, so it's good to hear this from your experience!
Click to expand...
Yes. And significantly more of that particular tone and feel than the Fishman Fluence, or the Lollar High Wind, for that matter. I'm really coming around to those, even though I prefer passive. the Fluence are, overall, more open.
 
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