POLL: The most accurate PAF replica...

[SpudMan]

I’ve been closely following your discussion about the new 50s Standards vs the 57 Reissues. I would really like in the not too distant future treat myself to a gold top and am looking forward to seeing what conclusion you come to. I don’t mean to hijack the thread, but have either of you considered or tried out a Heritage either the standard or the custom core line?

I will absolutely report back here as to what I buy. It likely will be another few weeks at least as the guitar I mentioned above, the lightly aged one, isn't due at the shop until the first few days of July. But I can say that at this point I really feel that the intangibles warrant going the extra step in cost and getting the new reissue. But again, given that this is a very big purchase for me, I haven't 100% made up my mind.

 

[SpudMan]

I have not tried a Heritage, but I've always been interested in them. I've heard many great things about them, just haven't ever been around many, have only seen a handful in stores over the years. Given how long they've been around, that might speak well of them because it may be that the people who do have them hang onto them.

I'd be interested in hearing any opinions on them from anyone that has one.

Saw this awhile back and thought it was interesting...

The Heritage's look fine, but from a stock perspective, I just have a bias against guitars like the standard Heritage's that come with SD pickups. I know there is nothing wrong with SD pickups, but I just don't feel for my purposes that they are a consideration. And the Custom Shop ones have Heritage manufactured pickups, which I don't know anything about.
For me, I have considered all the alternatives, including a Warmoth Regal (LP) build, and for this one I really want the "real" thing.

 

[Andy Eagle]

Yep, pretty sure fret size changed, too, especially on the R7 and R8, probably the R4 and R6, too. And those necks used to really be baseball bats.

I agree completely. The pre-Historic-Spec reissues are great guitars, and for the people to whom such things matter, the Historic-Spec was a step up, and the 2019+ changes were another. And yeah, the prices should reflect this, IMHO.

From the few that I've played, it seems to me that the shoulders of the neck are what's changed the most. The center is still decently thick, but it's more of a rounded C or almost a very soft V than the earlier necks that thought were more D shaped.

The vast majority of real vintage Les Pauls are semi circular almost in profile with differing thicknesses. Most reissue models are thicker . This is based on somewhere between 30 and 40 examples over the years.

 

[nicolasrivera]

WiZZ are the best.

 

[Budda]

I will absolutely report back here as to what I buy. It likely will be another few weeks at least as the guitar I mentioned above, the lightly aged one, isn't due at the shop until the first few days of July. But I can say that at this point I really feel that the intangibles warrant going the extra step in cost and getting the new reissue. But again, given that this is a very big purchase for me, I haven't 100% made up my mind.

Reminder the ultra light aged is gonna cost a few hundred more than a regular R7. But if it speaks to you it speaks to you.

Re Heritage: seems like the expected build quality is there, necks are rounder/more shoulders than the Gibsons. Local-ish dealer closed so I havent tried one.

I tried one R7 and felt the standard goldtop I bought used is comparable from a tone and feel perspective. Im sure the R7 may have had “it” with a different setup.

 

[SpudMan]

Reminder the ultra light aged is gonna cost a few hundred more than a regular R7. But if it speaks to you it speaks to you.

Re Heritage: seems like the expected build quality is there, necks are rounder/more shoulders than the Gibsons. Local-ish dealer closed so I havent tried one.

I tried one R7 and felt the standard goldtop I bought used is comparable from a tone and feel perspective. Im sure the R7 may have had “it” with a different setup.

Definitely on the ultra light aged. I understand they are listed at $500 more, so likely even if the store cuts a bit better deal, it isn't going to make up the entire difference.
Heritage looks fine, just not what I am looking for.
On your last paragraph, the standard goldtop you refer to, what year is it from? And I should say that while I am leaning towards the reissue, I haven't yet seen a new one so haven't yet compared it to a standard.

 

[Budda]

Definitely on the ultra light aged. I understand they are listed at $500 more, so likely even if the store cuts a bit better deal, it isn't going to make up the entire difference.
Heritage looks fine, just not what I am looking for.
On your last paragraph, the standard goldtop you refer to, what year is it from? And I should say that while I am leaning towards the reissue, I haven't yet seen a new one so haven't yet compared it to a standard.

My standard gt is a 2020. I had a P90 gt that was 2019 and also ticked all the boxes. Only sold that to fund my lpc.

The R7 i tried was a 2022 or 2023 i believe.

 

[SpudMan]

My standard gt is a 2020. I had a P90 gt that was 2019 and also ticked all the boxes. Only sold that to fund my lpc.

The R7 i tried was a 2022 or 2023 i believe.

At the shop I was leaning towards the 50's Standard as I was comparing it to the 2003 reissue and I didn't perceive any significant difference. I almost walked out that day with the standard. Other than that I don't impulse buy, I noticed that the grain pattern was a bit off in terms of two things, one being the grain was much darker on one side of the body, and the second being it was much more pronounced and out of balance visually. Not sure if that matters or not, and on a Goldtop it certainly wouldn't matter as ther grain patter is not visible.

 

[SpudMan]

Reminder the ultra light aged is gonna cost a few hundred more than a regular R7. But if it speaks to you it speaks to you.

Re Heritage: seems like the expected build quality is there, necks are rounder/more shoulders than the Gibsons. Local-ish dealer closed so I havent tried one.

I tried one R7 and felt the standard goldtop I bought used is comparable from a tone and feel perspective. Im sure the R7 may have had “it” with a different setup.

Just wondering, are the Murphy Lab guitars supposed to sound better? I ask because if it is just about looks I wouldn't pay a premium for that alone. If they do allegedly improve the sound, than it is at least worth checking out the ultra light aged one when it comes in. Otherwise I would want to compare a new standard to a new 457RI.

 

[Churchhill]

WiZZ are the best.

Just curious... what have you compared it to?

I've definitely heard a lot of good things about Wizz, the demos I've seen have sounded great, especially their P90s. I'm a little concerned about their consistency, though. I've seen more than a few posts about uneven slug poles and the covers causing unwanted microphonics. Still, though, they are definitely interesting and worthy of consideration.

 

[Churchhill]

The vast majority of real vintage Les Pauls are semi circular almost in profile with differing thicknesses. Most reissue models are thicker . This is based on somewhere between 30 and 40 examples over the years.

@Andy Eagle - That's good to know and something I'll definitely keep in mind. At some point, I think an R9 is in my future. My R0 is great, though, and the neck, for me, is very comfortable. I do prefer thinner necks, which is one of the reasons why I went with the R0. Honestly, I couldn't tell much difference between the new R9s and R0s I played when picking out the one I ended up with.

Just curious... what's your take on the Murphy Labs having a better sound than the current VOS Reissues?

 

[Budda]

Just wondering, are the Murphy Lab guitars supposed to sound better? I ask because if it is just about looks I wouldn't pay a premium for that alone. If they do allegedly improve the sound, than it is at least worth checking out the ultra light aged one when it comes in. Otherwise I would want to compare a new standard to a new 457RI.

Its the look and feel of the guitar. Iirc from mylespaul forum, its all the same materials some just go through the ML finish process instead.

If you want sound differences, now you’re looking at dealer runs with changes to pickup winding.

 

[Andy Eagle]

@Andy Eagle - That's good to know and something I'll definitely keep in mind. At some point, I think an R9 is in my future. My R0 is great, though, and the neck, for me, is very comfortable. I do prefer thinner necks, which is one of the reasons why I went with the R0. Honestly, I couldn't tell much difference between the new R9s and R0s I played when picking out the one I ended up with.

Just curious... what's your take on the Murphy Labs having a better sound than the current VOS Reissues?

They are the best wood in the factory so some will be better. IMO they are the best guitars Gibson have ever made on balance .

 

[nicolasrivera]

Just curious... what have you compared it to?

I've definitely heard a lot of good things about Wizz, the demos I've seen have sounded great, especially their P90s. I'm a little concerned about their consistency, though. I've seen more than a few posts about uneven slug poles and the covers causing unwanted microphonics. Still, though, they are definitely interesting and worthy of consideration.

Throbacks, OX, Rewind, Sigil and early 1963 pat.no. Gibsons

 

[Churchhill]

Just wondering, are the Murphy Lab guitars supposed to sound better? I ask because if it is just about looks I wouldn't pay a premium for that alone. If they do allegedly improve the sound, than it is at least worth checking out the ultra light aged one when it comes in. Otherwise I would want to compare a new standard to a new 457RI.

Honestly, I don't know. I didn't compare any Murphy Labs when I picked out my R0 because, to me, it's just a little too much aging. I do like the VOS aging, but even the light aged MLs have some "play wear" and finish checking. This is just a personal preference, though.

Based on what I've read online, I'm going to agree with @Budda . I think it's the same materials (wood, definitely electronics) and the MLs just go through additional finishing to replicate natural aging.

You're right about the top grain not being visible on a GT, but the back grain is and the VOS RIs and MLs use one-piece backs while the production '57 Standard uses a two piece back. The grain is usually much more pronounced, too... for instance, check out the CS SGs vs the production SGs for a good example of the differences in the grain of the mahogany. Not sure if one sounds better than the other (I think two-piece backs have a better chance of having a sonic impact, but it's still small and probably not audible), but they definitely look better. With a purchase like that, for me when I bought my R0, looks mattered and ultimately became the deciding factor after I narrowed it down to the best three sounding.

About the wiring harnesses, RS does offer pre-wired harnesses, as does Throbak and several others. Pre-wired kits make it as easy as can be, with just the wiring that's passed through the channels in the body left to complete (pickups to volume pots (x2), volume pots to switch, and switch to output). Even if you don't complete the job yourself, it's still easier & faster (therefore cheaper) for a tech to do it. If/when you get to this stage, just make sure that the harness uses good parts.

Check out this thread from @Andy Eagle - Tons of good info here!
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/wiring-when-is-an-upgrade-an-upgrade.188990/

 

[SpudMan]

They are the best wood in the factory so some will be better. IMO they are the best guitars Gibson have ever made on balance .

I confess to be very confused. Given that I know that nobody can make my decision for me, I do want to ask you and others the following:
Given that unlike most here, this is my one LP purchase, what do you suggest? Again, I will make up my own mind based on all of the available information, but I guess framing the question differently, if you could only have one LP, would you buy a standard and maybe upgrade stuff later, or would you go for a R7 or R7 ML?
I don't mean to be wishy/washy, but this is just a big decision for me and the more information I get, the more confused I am.

 

[Churchhill]

Throbacks, OX, Rewind, Sigil and early 1963 pat.no. Gibsons

Nice! On your Wizz PAFs, did you go with the stock A4 or one of the other options?

What did you think of the Sigil? I've heard good things about them, too, but they aren't getting any love here. So, I'm curious what your take is as someone who's actually tried them?

 

[SpudMan]

Honestly, I don't know. I didn't compare any Murphy Labs when I picked out my R0 because, to me, it's just a little too much aging. I do like the VOS aging, but even the light aged MLs have some "play wear" and finish checking. This is just a personal preference, though.

Based on what I've read online, I'm going to agree with @Budda . I think it's the same materials (wood, definitely electronics) and the MLs just go through additional finishing to replicate natural aging.

You're right about the top grain not being visible on a GT, but the back grain is and the VOS RIs and MLs use one-piece backs while the production '57 Standard uses a two piece back. The grain is usually much more pronounced, too... for instance, check out the CS SGs vs the production SGs for a good example of the differences in the grain of the mahogany. Not sure if one sounds better than the other (I think two-piece backs have a better chance of having a sonic impact, but it's still small and probably not audible), but they definitely look better. With a purchase like that, for me when I bought my R0, looks mattered and ultimately became the deciding factor after I narrowed it down to the best three sounding.

About the wiring harnesses, RS does offer pre-wired harnesses, as does Throbak and several others. Pre-wired kits make it as easy as can be, with just the wiring that's passed through the channels in the body left to complete (pickups to volume pots (x2), volume pots to switch, and switch to output). Even if you don't complete the job yourself, it's still easier & faster (therefore cheaper) for a tech to do it. If/when you get to this stage, just make sure that the harness uses good parts.

Check out this thread from @Andy Eagle - Tons of good info here!
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/wiring-when-is-an-upgrade-an-upgrade.188990/

Interested in your take on my response to Andy Eagle, but from what you say it sounds like I wouldn't find a ML desireable. I don't mind worn guitars, in fact I like them, but only worn guitars because I have played them and the wear is due to me.

 

[Churchhill]

I confess to be very confused. Given that I know that nobody can make my decision for me, I do want to ask you and others the following:
Given that unlike most here, this is my one LP purchase, what do you suggest? Again, I will make up my own mind based on all of the available information, but I guess framing the question differently, if you could only have one LP, would you buy a standard and maybe upgrade stuff later, or would you go for a R7 or R7 ML?
I don't mean to be wishy/washy, but this is just a big decision for me and the more information I get, the more confused I am.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt... if I could only keep one, it would be my VOS R0. That is likely the best guitar I own and definitely feels like the best guitar I own.

 

[Churchhill]

Interested in your take on my response to Andy Eagle, but from what you say it sounds like I wouldn't find a ML desireable. I don't mind worn guitars, in fact I like them, but only worn guitars because I have played them and the wear is due to me.

That's precisely how I feel... I don't care if a guitar is well-loved (or beat up), but I much prefer the wear comes from me.