Playing a real amp after a long break…

MackieFX said:
To be honest, Im using my axe direct out to my monitors. I dont have a real amp at home but I have always felt "something" which stops me feeling fully connected... Maybe this is it. I also think it might be the directness of it. But idk
Click to expand...
Just doing a quick research
We can hear a half of a millisecond delay 😅
well. Math or not math, feelings are feelings.
Then, hey! As you said, that is so small that you can perfectly don’t care about that. But when you have both an amp and modeler in the same room that is easier to feel that. The OP also feel it too.

https://www.aalto.fi/en/news/the-human-ear-detects-half-a-millisecond-delay-in-sound
 
MackieFX said:
How come analog stuff is so fast? Is analog 0ms ???
Click to expand...

No, it's not zero, but it's really, really miniscule. At least to the speaker.

I'm sure I could set up a situation where I could ABX the latency involved in a fractal....but I don't actually care about it in practice.

Though now that I think about it, that might actually have something to do with why I prefer IEMs to speakers for my Fractal. It is a different experience in more ways than that. But, sound travels ~13 inches in a millisecond. If the full latency through a fractal is ~2ms, then if you're more than a couple feet away from your cab...string -> fractal -> IEM -> ear is actually "faster" than string -> amp -> cab -> ear.

Your brain compensates for that....because you're aware of where your cab is in a very real way. But, it is faster from string to ear via fractal and IEMs...as long as you don't screw it up with a slow wireless system or a digital mixer. And since I use a wired IEM setup....that might be some part of why I prefer it.

No, my pants don't flap. But...in all honesty, meh.

When I'm in the crowd at a concert/club/etc., I want to feel the sound hitting my body. I prefer to wear earplugs than turn the PA system down. But when I'm playing...I'm perfectly happy listening to IEMs.
 
Everything takes some amount of time to happen, so everything has some amount of inherent latency. Even electromagnetic waves can only travel at the speed of light. That's said, a signal through a tube amp is about as close to zero latency as you'd ever likely get. Two milliseconds is imperceptibly small in most cases, but is still a relatively long time compared to the speed at which an analog signal will flow through a tube amp. The biggest delay in both systems is usually the amount of time it takes the soundwaves to get from their source speakers to your ears (except when using headphones where the speaker is less than an inch away). Sound travels through the air at roughly 1 foot per ms depending on the temperature, humidity, and atmospheric pressure in the room, so if you're 6 feet away from your cab, you're getting about 6 ms of additional latency. So comparing apples to apples, if you're playing both through the same cab from the same distance in the room, the question becomes can you reliably detect a difference between something like 6 ms and 8 ms of total latency. Jury is still out on that one.
 
And also Cliff said that their products are under 3 ms and that he doubt that something under 2ms exists in the modeler world. So… yes 🤷

But once again that is very very small. Not disturbing like what you have at first in a daw without setting the buffer.

If I remember it begins to really disturb me at 3 ms.
 
There is also a setting in global settings "Oversampling Mode: Best Quality / Minimum Latency". I wonder how (or whether) you perceive latency when setting this to "minimum latency"?
 
There's definitely a quick uncompressed attack/immediacy I feel with a real amp that I don't get when playing my Axe through studio monitors. That's something that makes me feel very connected to the amp and speaker, that quickness, the way sound jumps out of the speaker. Maybe that's partially a volume thing? I don't generally have my Axe cranked super loud through the monitors. But I don't crank my amps, either. I'll have to use a db meter soon and compare that way.

Either way, the Axe isn't going anywhere! The convenience, tones, varied selection, etc. are amazing. Especially now with Dyna Cabs.
 
jaycal6 said:
There's definitely a quick uncompressed attack/immediacy I feel with a real amp that I don't get when playing my Axe through studio monitors. That's something that makes me feel very connected to the amp and speaker, that quickness, the way sound jumps out of the speaker. Maybe that's partially a volume thing? I don't generally have my Axe cranked super loud through the monitors. But I don't crank my amps, either. I'll have to use a db meter soon and compare that way.

Either way, the Axe isn't going anywhere! The convenience, tones, varied selection, etc. are amazing. Especially now with Dyna Cabs.
Click to expand...

Yes; volume and headroom in your amps. Big drivers too…
 
My name is mud said:
The volume does a lot. The day I really appreciate the fender’s in the axe was when I played them loud with studio monitors . At tv volume the sound is weak. The thing is that these amps, particularly fender, like a… hot rod for example, at 1, it is already super loud. So people and myself include sometimes forgot that you cannot compare a tube amp with studio monitoring at tv volume, sure that’s not the same feel! But loud yes, here it is cool
Click to expand...
totally agree with the volume comment. my fender clean / EoB presets are meh at lower volumes, but the second you crank the volume up it's intoxicating. If you have the option, more volume is always the right choice lol.
 
marsonic said:
No, it's not zero, but it's really, really miniscule. At least to the speaker.
Click to expand...
As long as you are plugged directly into your tube amp. As soon as you go through even a modest analog pedalboard you will add some latency. For most analog pedalboards that's probably still a couple of ms.
 
Signal propagation through analog gear is extremely fast. Usually somewhere in the ballpark of 50% to 90% of the speed of light. That's going to be in the few nanoseconds range. 1 millisecond = 1 million nanoseconds.
 
mr_fender said:
Signal propagation through analog gear is extremely fast. Usually somewhere in the ballpark of 50% to 90% of the speed of light. That's going to be in the few nanoseconds range. 1 millisecond = 1 million nanoseconds.
Click to expand...
Sorry you are correct. I should have dropped the "analog" and just said most pedalboards. Its pretty rare that a pedalboard these days does not include a digital delay or reverb. As soon as you use one you are back to a couple of ms or more.
 
Oh ffs, nobody is detecting 1 or 2 ms of latency. Lets be real, IF something is perceptible theres definately more than that. Id bet a blind test would sort that out.

That would be like saying you play best standing 3 ft from the amp, because 10ft had too much latency. This place is wild sometimes.

I know a really good guitar player that wont play on a wireless either, because its too latent. But hes somehow fine when tracking in the studio with all that latency 😅
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom