Ok wish me luck last chance for my CLR today with the full band

sam said:
This is an interesting point. Some audiences are more discerning than others. I'm not sure if my audiences would even notice half the time. The guitarists in the audience might notice tone and level/blend, but a lot of people just notice the lead singer anyway depending on the audience of course.

I'd say make yourself happy first, your band happy second, and your audience and sound personnel happy third. After all, you and your band need to feel happy and "in sync" to play well together.
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I'm not disagreeing with you per say, but just wanted to point out that I've witnessed way too many guitar players who put too much emphasis on making themselves happy first. That could mean having to put a 30 second to 2 minute solo into every song, or blasting the audience with an "ice pick" tone from a cranked up 4x12 cab with v30's in it just so they could think it sounded good from their off axis spot on stage.

I think its best to put your audience first and foremost. If you want to wank out some solo's for a half hour, you can do it at home. People paying a cover usually don't want to sit and hear that, and as your essentially there to perform, you need to give the "customer" what they want. Its very boring watch someone kneel at their pedal board and play with a delay knob for 10 minutes, know what I mean ? lol

Its just like bands that refuse to play their hits, saying their artist integrity is to do the "new stuff". Well that is fine and good if your having a free show, but when your charging people $75 for a ticket, you kind of owe it to them to play what they came to hear, know what I mean ?

Again, to each his own, no "right" answer, or one size fits all solution, but generally speaking, if you put the audience first, play a good show, of music people enjoy hearing, and with a good sound quality, you'll keep getting gigs.

Seen it way too many times when a band comes in, plays some weird stuff that only they seem to be enjoying, usually at a horribly painful volume, and then wonder why they don't get booked again anywhere. (not suggesting this is the OP by any means, just to make that clear).
 
Man this thread is making me reconsider ordering a CLR. I guess I'll just have to use it to see if it's for me.
 
I have to add my 2c here as well.. I'm on year two as an AxeFxer and I did it pushing a pair of Egnater 212s with a Matrix800 without cab sims. I liked it. Still do but not using AxeFx cab sims felt wrong to me... They're amazingly useful and easy to switch between. Upon trying some powered Mackies and a CLR I decided to try the FRFR route. I researched my ass off and decided upon a XiTone 2x12 cab. As all of you may know, Mick and XiTone are known for that "cab feel" while using cab sims.
During the production of my cab Mick called me and asked if I wanted my cab to do both. FRFR AND standard cab capabilities. Well why not! A pair of toggle switches in the back that drop the driver and 3db boost for FRFR response ... Per speaker!

A couple weeks later I received that is without question the most badass, full sounding, and easily tuned speaker cab I have ever played through. Period. I now have the ability to have one speaker FRFR and the other not, both FRFR, or both not. He also installed a SwitchGizmo that can change this capability via my MFC while onstage. Solos are cab, everything else is FRFR... I'm winning now!
Bottom line is that I agree with the initial post in some ways. The typical FRFR setup left something lacking for me personally, and the type of music I play requires a more earthy growl and more punch. So before you give up on FRFR just yet consider hitting XiTone's website and talk with Mick. He will answer all of your questions, give you every option, and most likely install a smile on your face within an hour of UPS leaving your doorway.
And just to pedigree this post I have toured nationally for years and play between 100 And 175 shows a year. This axe-Xitone combo is the finish line for me.
Downside? They're heavier than CLRs. Not a big deal to me but if wearing your cab as a hat is one of your goals, reconsider..


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kmanick said:
oh ya I've got tinnitus in my right ear (from something not guitar related) I always wear plugs.
my drummer on the other hand is going to go deaf LOL!
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I bought 2 sheets of Plexi-Glass for when I was using my Marshall full stacks and made a shield so I could get a little more juice out of it without killing the audience, and I still had it after selling everything else off, so we ended up using it to separate the drummer from me and our vocalist, as he is ridiculous, there is no such thing as dead space because it's always filled with some kind of cymbals.... he's awesome though, but really.... we need to get a full surround or start playing arenas.....
 
My next door neighbor is a drummer, nice guy, but totally must of killed his hearing. Got a new puppy who barks a lot, as puppies will do, and when I see the dude I'm always like "sorry if the barking bothered you last night" and he's always "I didn't hear a thing"

Gotta love drummers lol
 
I use 2 CLRs pole mounted angled in toward the drummer. Works great, then just line thru them in stereo to the FOH. Ive used stacks for years and decided I wanted to sound better to the audience, it seems maybe you guys are just playing too loud to begin with, Ive run the fractal into the loop of my Mesa Triple Rec, but it sounds much better with the wedges, and I agree you lose "string feel" but having the tone and the various tones available is more important to me than string feel.

I always set my CLRs in FF mode on poles, or wedge for one the floor, they are just too short in my opinion to sit traditional on the floor.

I haven't tried my CLRs at a gig yet, Ive done a couple of sub gigs where I just lined into the pa and used the bands monitors to give me the signal, but both of these bands are used to using preamps into the PA instead of traditional amps.
 
well #1 we are not playing too loud we are very conscious of volume (we're not exactly kids here, I've been playing on and off in bands since the 70's)
I've been down this "band" road many many times.
#2 if a piece of gear does not inspire you then that piece of gear is not for you.
I have absolutely zero problem going FOH from out 1 and into a power amp 2X12 from output 2. all you guys who are somewhat trying to paint a picture of the "self absorbed Yngwie " types
of player that don't give a shit about what the audience is getting.....................not the case here, we're all pretty seasoned, there are no 10 minute wank fests going on here.
the jist of my issues (and the band members) is that the CLR sounds like what it exactly is..... a PA monitor (tuned for modeling but still a PA monitor).
Bands have been mic'ing amps in clubs for decades, it doesn't suddenly work because you don't "have to do it that way anymore'
that attitude is honestly a bit arrogant, I'm quite interested in how many of you CLR owners have in the past gigged with real rigs and now gig with the CLR
as compared to how many guys who own this unit and have never actually gigged a "real rig" and basically are bedroom players who are , excuse the expression
"talking shit out of asses" :)
I know there are a decent number of people on here who do gig the CLR and like it, but I would haphazardly guess the majority of CLR owners here have never seen a stage with it
and many probably never will. (and there is nothing wrong with that but playing alone at home along with a Van Halen CD is quite a bit different than playing with a full band)
At the end of the day if a piece of equipment makes my playing suffer, the audience is going to hear less than my best, and at that point a slick polished sound of my
sub par playing really benefits .............well no one.
Not trying to start an argument here just trying to lay out some "perspective" about where I'm coming from.
rock on:encouragement:
 
I need 2 CLR's to recreate a med to loud cab rig.

Also I learned not to be afraid to CRANK the CLR's. I was treating them like a vocal wedge when I first got them.

When I started treating them like my tube rig and cranking to a healthy volume. Wow huge difference.

But in my experience you need two to recreate a 50W or 100W tube rig.
 
kmanick said:
Not trying to start an argument here just trying to lay out some "perspective" about where I'm coming from.
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Are you sure?

kmanick said:
that attitude is honestly a bit arrogant, I'm quite interested in how many of you CLR owners have in the past gigged with real rigs and now gig with the CLR as compared to how many guys who own this unit and have never actually gigged a "real rig" and basically are bedroom players who are, excuse the expression "talking shit out of asses"
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My 2 cents is that the fact that you have had this much attention on "the best way to emulate amps in a live sound environment with the AFX" shows how much the forum cares about the quality of the product regardless of use. I am sure there are all walks of playing and gigging on here so thinking that a flat sounding CLR doesn't sound like a powered 4X12 or 2X12 Marshall or whatever cab perceptually says "yeah no shizah".

For me I run FOH for both OUT1 & 2 using IEMs in most situations. If it is a less advanced venue I use a powered PA speaker for Out 2 and XLR direct FOH. If your band mates "appreciate" the color that your previous configuration granted then why change it?

The Axe-FX gives you traditional, untraditional, orthodox and unorthodox configuration profiles for live or recorded uses in how to present the sound. Find one that 'works' for you and your scenario then stick with it. I have not had a need for a FRFR powered cab yet. When I dial in presets I do so with near-field studio monitors then A/B switch into my Mackie board to powered speakers for live sound FOH simulation making sure the balance is perfect. I would suggest before you pitch the CLR you get an A/B switch to go between your previous config and your new one. That way you can see what mods may need to be made in the preset for that sweet spot.
 
kmanick said:
tone didn't suck it was actually pretty good, (I used 3 plexi patches and 2 Friedman BE patches) it just felt completely sterile and fake.
when I was noodling around by myself between songs I really liked it (like playing at home alone), when the full band was playing
I just felt completely dis connected from my guitar.
I know a lot of guys here constantly put the audience first, but if my rig is having a negative impact on my playing
then the audience is not going to be hearing anything good anyway, no matter how processed or "captured" the sound is.
and I was competing with a 2X12 not a 4X12, when I plugged in and starting playing through the 4X12 instead of the CLR then
all was good.
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You gave it a shot it didn't work out time to make your next move. Sounds like you'll ether be waiting on a Fryette LXII to push your 212 or maybe run a modded Mesa 20/20 ?
 
There is no single right way. Personally I don't like FRFR for monitoring. I played for two decades with a 4x12 behind me and couldn't make the switch to FRFR. But for FOH you can't beat direct. Our best sound was always direct to FOH and a 4x12 on stage because I played better with the 4x12. Mic'ing the 4x12 never sounded as good as going direct.

Fortunately the Axe-Fx was designed from the outset to be flexible enough to support a variety of configurations. It is perhaps notable that many modelers are now copying this ability.
 
FractalAudio said:
There is no single right way. Fortunately the Axe-Fx was designed from the outset to be flexible enough to support a variety of configurations. It is perhaps notable that many modelers are now copying this ability.
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Very notable, thanks for additional input Cliff-anator. The flexibility the AFX lends is unmatched thus far in my experience and FOH is my choice.

To the OP, whatever works go with it!!
 
A couple points I'd like to make, but first a preface: I don't care what you use. If CLRs ain't your bag, then it is what it is, no skin off anyone's back.

(1) You've said a couple times how your other guitarist's Shiva "squished" your sound, but also that you do not play/rehearse at extremely loud volumes. Can you elaborate as to what exactly you mean by "squished"?
Recently, I went to jam with some old buds who were in the process of auditioning another guitarist (I was there more or less as an extra set of ears & to help judge talent, but had no interest in joining this group). The guy auditioning was playing through a Bogner Uberschall (pretty sure it was a Rev Blue, but can't be certain - and he had no idea what I was talking about when I asked). I guess, thinking I was another guitarist auditioning, he tried his damnedest to drown me out. It got to the point where even his clean channel was sizzling with noise, everything completely maxed out. The room is a sort of short hallway shape, terrible configuration, and here we are directly apart from each other in a narrow section, with his painfully loud (and terrible) tone shooting straight at me. Reminder, this is an Uberschall, an amp that generally falls into the "don't fuck with me" category. With my Axe output maxed and Matrix GT1000 at just past one o'clock on both sides, running stereo, I crushed him. CLRs & volume are not an issue.
Flip side, in my band, my bandmates were commenting on how much "fuller" our other guitarist's JVM410 rig sounded. I did two things: (1) I asked them to each stand directly on-axis while he played, then pointed out that a significant portion of our audiences are going to get that in their faces at every gig. Then, (2) I removed the high pass filters I've been using so as to stay out of bass freq territory and raised my high cut from ~6K to 9K. Instant huge, and playing together, at comparable volumes, he was suddenly lost in the mix (but our sound as a whole was also instantly garbled... this was just to experiment for their sakes).
So, I guess I'm wondering what you mean, because from my experience, I've always been doing the squishing with my CLRs.

(2) I've let several buddies jam through my Fractal/Matrix/Atomic rig. A lot of them were told beforehand that they were going to be playing through an adjacent Dual Rec (and I would hand them a wireless, saying it went to the Dual Rec). They'd be playing at a decent distance so it wouldn't be obvious that no sound was coming out of the oversized 412 cab. Without fail, all of them have called it the tightest, most responsive Dual Rec they've ever played through. My buddies aren't Guitar Center kids. They know their amps. Some of them would say things to the effect that it didn't sound like a traditional cab (because, as has been said 1000's of times, FRFR =/= traditional cab), and some liked that while others didn't. But no one said the responsiveness wasn't there...

So, to get to my point, as a guy that has gigged traditional rigs for years, and over the last few have played FRFR exclusively, my question for you is simply, are you just one of those guys that doesn't bond with FRFR? That's pretty normal. Some like it and some don't, no fault either way.
 
FractalAudio said:
There is no single right way. Personally I don't like FRFR for monitoring. I played for two decades with a 4x12 behind me and couldn't make the switch to FRFR. But for FOH you can't beat direct. Our best sound was always direct to FOH and a 4x12 on stage because I played better with the 4x12. Mic'ing the 4x12 never sounded as good as going direct.

Fortunately the Axe-Fx was designed from the outset to be flexible enough to support a variety of configurations. It is perhaps notable that many modelers are now copying this ability.
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thank you, I have been playing for decades as well , always using either 2X12's or 4X12's. FRFR for my personal monitoring or "on stage feedback" just doesn't cut it for me.

IbanezFreak4------------I am not trying to start an arguement, just a few too many posts on this forum that "suggest" that if you don't fall in line with the sheep
A. you're doing something wrong or
B. you a self centered wanker that only cares about his own playing experience. shit I am not Vinnie Vincent LOL!
if I didn't care about the entire experience and thought the Axe was not capable of doing what I want it to do, I would've bailed out of here a long time ago.
as I've said many times.....it's not a short coming from the Axe itself, it's playing through hyped up PA monitors that just doesn't cut it for me.
lets just leave it at that shall we.
 
If your stage sound is something you need to have just right in order to be inspired, then the only person who can make the value judgement of what works and what doesn't is the person holding the guitar, plugging into his stage rig. End of story. We can all share anecdotes endlessly about this or that speaker system, but in the end, this is a highly subjective thing, and it goes with the turf with respect to the individual creative process.

As for the CLR, I find that I use it just as much for vocal stage monitoring and as a small PA-on-sticks as for guitar or bass. I think they are just great sounding speakers for live use. I also think that they are an excellent choice for tweaking modeler tones to see what they "really sound like", and so that fully cab emulated tones will translate well to FOH systems.
 
If you're in a loud, fast and heavy band, wear denim and leather, studs and play pointy guitars you need 4x12s

If you're playing pop and worship music, wear suit and ties and play a Parker guitar you need FRFRs

Have a nice day!8)
 
I am not throwing stones here but if once you started playing with the full band the issues started then the issue is the patch. I am a CLR owner, I left it and eventually came back to it. I have also played through and or owned RCF, EV ELX, K12 and DLM12. I have even showed up to countless gigs where they say we have a monitor for you where you can have your own mix and I use it "blindly". Through every scenario I have had amazing interaction and have always blown FOH guys away. So it begs the question have a used traditional cabs before? Have a used tube amps before? The answer to both is yes. at one point in my life I used 2 4x12 cabs. I have done various other cab configurations as well. I have had tube heads, played tube combos and had rock systems using tube power amps. I have played with both my old tube rigs as well as the axe in front of 20 ppl and over 3k. I have enjoyed the axe the mosts. So I am I trying to convince you to stick with the CLR or FRFR? No. Actually I came to suggest the boogie 20/20. It is a single space tube power amp so it meets your needs. I just wanted to along with my suggestion give my example to say maybe more tweaking can get you were you need.
 
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