Not enjoying Matrix....Mesa 20/20?

I did some testing this morning since I just got the Axe Fx 2 1 month ago and my opinion on the 2 90 was from using the Axe Fx Ultra for over 2 years.
I was busy doing audio clips for 13 models of Scumback Speakers and 5 different WCR pickups for their websites which took me 22 days to do! So I hadn't had a chance to dig in on the Axe Fx 2 new features and I stand corrected!
I tried using my old B&K ST 140 which is a great sounding MOSFET power amp and used to be a good economical option for audiophiles in the 80's.
This amp is quite transparent but musical sounding. I tried it with my Axe Fx 2 and one of my Marshall cabs with Scumback H75 speakers and used stock amps settings with a bit of tweaking an engaged the power amp simulation and I stand corrected!
It sounded excellent and with the ability to tweak the speaker resonance I was able to get a great tone. With the 2 90 I have to turn off the power simulation because it sounds messy, but now that I can use it with the B&K power amp, I was able to grasp how each parameters affects the sound using the power amp simulation.
So it looks like the Matrix could work for me and I can keep my 2 90 in my studio. My B&K ST-140 is only 105 wpc at 4 ohms and much less at 16 ohms but the clarity of the amp it's incredible compared to my Crown XLS1000 and the ART SLA power amps.
Since my B&K it's old technology I'm sure the Matrix will be an improvement from the old Hitachi power transistors, the huge electrolytic capacitor and the prehistoric toroidal transformer of my B&K ST-140!
 
MikeyB59 said:
I agree. There isn't a clean sound to be had from it and its probably the most colored power amp I ever used. I know Peavey doesn't get much love, but their classic series tube power amps are WAY better than the 20/20 and cheaper.
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could not agree more its a v neutral power amp and sounds great!
 
There's a mod for the 20/20 I did to mine when I had one that made it sound a little better, I just can't remember what it was, but if I am thinking right it was lifting one leg of a cap or resistor.
 
Cliff certainly has heard 10x more power amps than I, But IF I ever went back to regular cabs I liked the 20/20 better than the Matrix and it's a single rack space. My buddy in Fresno runs a Marshall stack with an Axe II and the 20/20 and it sounds very good -even with his FW v6 he is still running.....! RCF's still blow it away.
 
I tried running my Marsha Friedman, FJA modded Solawn Nitro and other amps that I have using a custom made dummy load that sounds fantastic and use the Axe Fx 2 as a mixer/ Fx unit by plugging the line out of my dummy load into the back of the Axe Fx 2 then into my Mesa 2 90 and it sounded incredible.
I can crank my amps to 10 if I want to and get the power tubes to cook a bit. I use the mixer block to mix the dry signals with the effects. It really works well The Axe Fx 2 it's a very flexible unit.
 
eljodon said:
I did some testing this morning since I just got the Axe Fx 2 1 month ago and my opinion on the 2 90 was from using the Axe Fx Ultra for over 2 years.
I was busy doing audio clips for 13 models of Scumback Speakers and 5 different WCR pickups for their websites which took me 22 days to do! So I hadn't had a chance to dig in on the Axe Fx 2 new features and I stand corrected!
I tried using my old B&K ST 140 which is a great sounding MOSFET power amp and used to be a good economical option for audiophiles in the 80's.
This amp is quite transparent but musical sounding. I tried it with my Axe Fx 2 and one of my Marshall cabs with Scumback H75 speakers and used stock amps settings with a bit of tweaking an engaged the power amp simulation and I stand corrected!
It sounded excellent and with the ability to tweak the speaker resonance I was able to get a great tone. With the 2 90 I have to turn off the power simulation because it sounds messy, but now that I can use it with the B&K power amp, I was able to grasp how each parameters affects the sound using the power amp simulation.
So it looks like the Matrix could work for me and I can keep my 2 90 in my studio. My B&K ST-140 is only 105 wpc at 4 ohms and much less at 16 ohms but the clarity of the amp it's incredible compared to my Crown XLS1000 and the ART SLA power amps.
Since my B&K it's old technology I'm sure the Matrix will be an improvement from the old Hitachi power transistors, the huge electrolytic capacitor and the prehistoric toroidal transformer of my B&K ST-140!
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Hey man...are you going to get a Matrix?? I already own one, but haven't liked it as much as the 2:90 for lead tones, but it sounds great for clean tones. But, if anyone could tweak it to make it sound good, it would be you, so I'm anxious to hear what you can do with it!
 
mrstrat said:
Hey man...are you going to get a Matrix?? I already own one, but haven't liked it as much as the 2:90 for lead tones!
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Now that’s what really scares me…
I would buy the Matrix 1000 but I would have to sell my 2:90 to finance it….
And after ill do that there is no undo button…
I really don’t want to be disappointed, also the matrix isn’t cheap…
 
mrstrat said:
Hey man...are you going to get a Matrix?? I already own one, but haven't liked it as much as the 2:90 for lead tones, but it sounds great for clean tones. But, if anyone could tweak it to make it sound good, it would be you, so I'm anxious to hear what you can do with it!
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I'm going to tweak some patches with my B&K power amp which as I described before that is a MOSFET amp and it should be similar to the Matrix. My main reason I want to get is because weight. the 2 90 is way to heavy for me and I have a serious problem with my neck so I'll use the 2 90 strictly for my studio.
You have to mess around with the power amp simulation like someone described in this thread.
Messing with the speaker page on the amp block also gives you some cool options, I'll be happy if it sounds close just to avoid bringing the 2 90 to rehearsal or a gig so when I start playing, I won't be in pain or have my left hand go numb on me from a pinched nerve!!
 
Roadrunner said:
Now that’s what really scares me…
I would buy the Matrix 1000 but I would have to sell my 2:90 to finance it….
And after ill do that there is no undo button…
I really don’t want to be disappointed, also the matrix isn’t cheap…
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The guys at Matrix are VERY cool. I believe they have a very generous return policy. Drop them an email, and I'm sure they'll work with you to make sure you're happy. I haven't given up on the Matrix yet, but the 2:90 gave me the best lead tones with the least amount of tweaking. I was able to get really great clean tones through the Matrix, actually preferable over the 2:90 for clean tones.
 
You might also want to check out the RetroChannel stereo power amp, solid state, 100w per side (think 100W tube power, it can get very loud) and it weighs around 20lbs and takes up 2 rack units.

In addition to the volume control it also has a master control which lets you run the amp clean or add some 'tube' flavouring. It also has controls for presence and resonance for use with guitar cabs. I own one and I love it. Check out their website at Retrochannel.com, there's a great video of Lance playing through an AxeII into guitar cab setup. There are also several other demo videos on YouTube.

Price per their website is $699 and it's USA made (Austin, TX).
 
Loren9050 said:
You might also want to check out the RetroChannel stereo power amp, solid state, 100w per side (think 100W tube power, it can get very loud) and it weighs around 20lbs and takes up 2 rack units.

In addition to the volume control it also has a master control which lets you run the amp clean or add some 'tube' flavouring. It also has controls for presence and resonance for use with guitar cabs. I own one and I love it. Check out their website at Retrochannel.com, there's a great video of Lance playing through an AxeII into guitar cab setup. There are also several other demo videos on YouTube.

Price per their website is $699 and it's USA made (Austin, TX).
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Wow, having a presence and resonance control would be a nice feature. I like the Mesa 2 90 deep and modern switch but mine has a hum when I engage these switches so I need to take the amp in because it's too loud for recording. I tried changing the tubes and it didn't solve the problem. I read somewhere that it could be some bad caps that need to be replaced. I'll check also check out the Retro channel. Thanks
 
I love my mesa 20/20 (el84s with the becos deep mod). Before this amp i used a mesa 50/50 which sounded just as great but i sold this for the extra space and slight weight saving that the 20/20 gave in my rack.

The only annoying thing about the amp was fan noise at low voloume. So decided after reading some reviews that i would try the matrix 1000. I checked things out with Matt from matrix and found that i could try the amp and return it after it within 30 days with no questioned asked.

At first i was quite impresssed the fan was very quiet and at low volumes and all sounded great. However things started to go wrong when i turned the amp up to band level. I set things up so that i could constantly swap speaker leads from my 20/20 to the matrix into 2 x V30 cabs. There was a clear difference the mesa had more bounce, ring and life to the sound and responsed much better to how the guitar was being played (hard or soft). The matrix amplified the sound exactly but didn't add the extra magic that the valves driven hard in the mesa added it just simply amplified the sound. In my and a few fellow bands mates opinion anyway.

I tried the matrix 1000 for about 10 days tried a few different suggested tweaks in the axe ii but still kept coming to the same conclusion. I then returned it asking Matt for the refund that he promised if i was not completely satisfied and there was no problem.

I then decided to experiment and removed the factory fitted fan from my mesa and installed 2 x "Be Quiet" PC type fans. After some initial problems with electrical noise, which were eventually over come by using an external power supply with screened cables etc.

I' am now happier than ever my mesa, it is ultra quiet at low volumes with plenty of air flow and cooling running through the amp and a great sound at high volumes.

All in my opinion any way.

Cheers Dan
 
NewcastleBrown said:
I love my mesa 20/20 (el84s with the becos deep mod). Before this amp i used a mesa 50/50 which sounded just as great but i sold this for the extra space and slight weight saving that the 20/20 gave in my rack.

The only annoying thing about the amp was fan noise at low voloume. So decided after reading some reviews that i would try the matrix 1000. I checked things out with Matt from matrix and found that i could try the amp and return it after it within 30 days with no questioned asked.

At first i was quite impresssed the fan was very quiet and at low volumes and all sounded great. However things started to go wrong when i turned the amp up to band level. I set things up so that i could constantly swap speaker leads from my 20/20 to the matrix into 2 x V30 cabs. There was a clear difference the mesa had more bounce, ring and life to the sound and responsed much better to how the guitar was being played (hard or soft). The matrix amplified the sound exactly but didn't add the extra magic that the valves driven hard in the mesa added it just simply amplified the sound. In my and a few fellow bands mates opinion anyway.

I tried the matrix 1000 for about 10 days tried a few different suggested tweaks in the axe ii but still kept coming to the same conclusion. I then returned it asking Matt for the refund that he promised if i was not completely satisfied and there was no problem.

I then decided to experiment and removed the factory fitted fan from my mesa and installed 2 x "Be Quiet" PC type fans. After some initial problems with electrical noise, which were eventually over come by using an external power supply with screened cables etc.

I' am now happier than ever my mesa, it is ultra quiet at low volumes with plenty of air flow and cooling running through the amp and a great sound at high volumes.

All in my opinion any way.

Cheers Dan
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Do you have any issues with not being loud enough? My drummer is quite loud that we even use the Plexi glass around him.
 
I find there is plenty of volume. The volume out of the 20/20 is really quite surprising.

Although if you are after a really loud clean sound it's maybe not the best amp to go for.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
 
NewcastleBrown said:
I find there is plenty of volume. The volume out of the 20/20 is really quite surprising.

Although if you are after a really loud clean sound it's maybe not the best amp to go for.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
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With the Mesa 2 90 at 10 o'clock is quite loud, but when I used to use the Crown I had to go all the way up 1 or 2 o'clock to get that volume. The Crown is rated at 350 at 4 ohm which works fine when I'm using my stereo Marshall cabs which has the option to run them at 16 ohm or 4 ohms but at rehearsal I use one cabinet which runs at 8 ohms per side so the Crown is only putting out 225 watts and it sounds really small. By with the 2 90 it sounds huge. But the amps it's so heavy!
 
The mesa 20/20 is still fairly heavy. Although not as heavy as the 50/50 i used before and but it is only one rack space.

It costs about £80 - £100 every year in valves but it think it is worth it.
 
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