New BOSS SY-1000. The Hex-pickup is not dead. Long live the 13-pin plug!

Hello,

is there any difference in "AMP modeling" sound quality when input of standard pickups goes through GK-3 system + 13 pin “MIDI” cable (Roland GKC) to “GK in” input of Boss SY-1000 and when input of standard pickups goes direct to “Guitar input” of Boss SY-1000?

Thank you very much.
 
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bradlake said:
Yes, there is inherently a difference in tone between the two, the GK is getting the piezo signal and the direct from pickups in does not. “Quality “ is subjective at best, so that can’t be answered. Both are very usable once you start messing with it.
Click to expand...
DarcyDiverge said:
Hello,

is there any difference in sound quality when input of standard pickups goes through GK-3 system + 13 pin “MIDI” cable (Roland GKC) to “GK in” input of Boss SY-1000 and when input of standard pickups goes direct to “Guitar input” of Boss SY-1000?

Thank you very much.
Click to expand...
DarcyDiverge said:
Hello,

is there any difference in sound quality when input of standard pickups goes through GK-3 system + 13 pin “MIDI” cable (Roland GKC) to “GK in” input of Boss SY-1000 and when input of standard pickups goes direct to “Guitar input” of Boss SY-1000?

Thank you very much.
Click to expand...
bradlake said:
Yes, there is inherently a difference in tone between the two, the GK is getting the piezo signal and the direct from pickups in does not. “Quality “ is subjective at best, so that can’t be answered. Both are very usable once you start messing with it.
Click to expand...
 
DarcyDiverge said:
Hello,

is there any difference in sound quality when input of standard pickups goes through GK-3 system + 13 pin “MIDI” cable (Roland GKC) to “GK in” input of Boss SY-1000 and when input of standard pickups goes direct to “Guitar input” of Boss SY-1000?

Thank you very much.
Click to expand...

I do not like to run my regular pickups though such a tiny cable (that's why I buy high quality low capacitance cables), so I connect it directly to the guitar input through a separate cable.

But I do not normally connect the regular pickups to the SY-1000 guitar input. I connect them to the Axe-FX Guitar Input. The quality of the Axe-FX guitar processor is far beyond Boss/Roland. I use the SY-1000 only for GK pickups
 
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bradlake said:
Yes, there is inherently a difference in tone between the two, the GK is getting the piezo signal and the direct from pickups in does not. “Quality “ is subjective at best, so that can’t be answered. Both are very usable once you start messing with it.
Click to expand...

I think that he is referring to the difference between using a direct cable from the regular pickups to the Guitar Input and connecting the regular pickups to the GK-3 (through the short cable) using the 13pin cable instead of the standard guitar cable. Not the differnce between the sound of regular pickups and GK pickups
 
Yes, that's what I mean. Thanks
Piing said:
I think that he is referring to the difference between using a direct cable from the regular pickups to the Guitar Input and connecting the regular pickups to the GK-3 (through the short cable) using the 13pin cable instead of the standard guitar cable. Not the differnce between the sound of regular pickups and GK pickups
Click to expand...
 
Piing said:
I think that he is referring to the difference between using a direct cable from the regular pickups to the Guitar Input and connecting the regular pickups to the GK-3 (through the short cable) using the 13pin cable instead of the standard guitar cable. Not the differnce between the sound of regular pickups and GK pickups
Click to expand...
I got it after I read your responses
 
Hallelujah!! Boss has released a new firmware for the SY-1000!! That is more unusual than a planets alignment. But.. wait! The only news is that it just fixes one bug that nobody ever mentioned, despite the many bugs and suggestions for improvement that have been noted at the VGuitarForum 😭

Anyway, the SY-1000 has already elevated to the heaven of the legendary synths, thanks to the tones that some users are squeezing out of it. E.g.:





















For the non-initiated, please note that it is not pitch-to-MIDI. That is pure guitar modelling, reproducing all the playing nuances. But instead of modeling just an amplifier, it models other interesting things.

Processing the SY-1000 basic tones through the Axe-FX III instead of the SY effects transports you to another dimension
 
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OK, I have posted this today also in the VGuitar Forum:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=34511.0
but no response until now, well it's only online for one hour. Anyway:
Among the many other things you can do with the SY-1000 I would like to use only the Guitar Modelling of it in connection with the Amps and Effects of the GT-1000.
What is the best way connection wise and settings wise to do this?
I am playing mainly a Strat so in this scenario I just need the GT-1000 to simulate a Humbucker Guitar while I would be using the Amps and Effects of the GT-1000.
I have also a Boss ES5 Switcher. Maybe it would be a good idea to connect the SY-1000 with the Switcher.
So the Input Chain would be like this in my case:
Guitar -> ES5 -> SY-1000 -> GT-1000 Core -> Apollo x8 Audio Interface
After reading a lot of post here I got aware of the fact that the SY-1000 Send and Return FX Loop is only MONO.
I think I could live with that or do I miss a lot of spectacular Sound Effects when I use the SY-1000 only as a MONO Device?
And I am a little bit confused about the FX Loop in the SY-1000 because unter Send Return are three options:
What would be the best option in my use case?
  1. Normal
  2. Direct Mix
  3. Branch out
Explanation from SY-1000 Manual:
1. Normal:
The input to SEND/RETURN within the effect chain will be output to the SEND jack, and the input from the RETURN jack will be output following SEND/ RETURN.
Use this setting if you want to connect an external effects processor in series within the SY-1000’s effect chain.
2. Direct Mix:
The input to SEND/RETURN within the effect chain will be output to the SEND jack, and the input
from the RETURN jack and the input to SEND/ RETURN (the direct sound) will be mixed and output following SEND/RETURN.
Use this when you want to mix the SY-1000’s effects sounds together with the external effects device applied to it.
3. Branch Out
The input to SEND/RETURN within the effect chain will be output to the SEND jack. The input from the RETURN jack will be ignored.
For example, by placing SEND/RETURN in the SY-1000’s effect chain in front of reverb or delay, this allows you to use the SEND jack as a dry out.

(As Guitar Input I am planning to put an internal pickup GK GT3 Kit into a Fender Deluxe Strat.)

Just one more thing:
Can the SY-1000 do a decent Feedback Simulation like or better than the Freqout? Right now I have the GT-1000 Core which has a Feedbacker Effect, but I have given up using it because it produces a lot of noise and hum.
But I have to admit that I didn't spent hours of tweaking with this effect. Maybe it is possible to reach better results if you spent more time with it...?
Final obervation: I don't have the SY-1000 yet, but I will buy it. I still have the VG99, but I haven't used it for a long time. And I have the SIM-1 Pickup Simulation Pedal. I think it will be interesting to compare the Pickup Simulations of the SY-1000 with the SIM-1.
The SIM-1 does a pretty good job in my opinion to simulate a Strat if you are using for example a PRS CE 24 or to simulate a Humbucker when you are using a Strat. Not long ago I was obsessed with the idea to do it all with one guitar and I thought that the PRS CE 24 with the SIM-1 could do it all, but there is one problem: There is a serious loss of signal strength when I use the SIM-1 and it has many great features, but I find the user interface a little bit problematic. Now I am going more in the direction of using a real Strat and simulate a Humbucker sound when needed. I think that is easier to achieve either on the SIM-1 or with the SY-1000.
And as much as I love the AXE FX3 I have to admit that probably for what I need as a bedroom player the combination of GT-1000 with the SY-1000 got me pretty much covered.
 
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I never use the SY-1000 FX loop. I connect the SY1000 Analog Stereo Output to one of the Axe-FX III stereo inputs (and the VG99 to another stereo input). Why don't you just connect the SY-1000 to the GT-1000 Return1/Return2 inputs? I assume that they can be routed internally to any position of the FX chain

At the SY-1000 I disable everything except the guitar modeling, and process the rest (AMP/CAB/FX) at the Axe-FX
 
Piing said:
I never use the SY-1000 FX loop. I connect the SY1000 Analog Stereo Output to one of the Axe-FX III stereo inputs (and the VG99 to another stereo input). Why don't you just connect the SY-1000 to the GT-1000 Return1/Return2 inputs? I assume that they can be routed internally to any position of the FX chain

At the SY-1000 I disable everything except the guitar modeling, and process the rest (AMP/CAB/FX) at the Axe-FX
Click to expand...
Thank you, this sounds like to ticket to guitar heaven... :)
 
Piing said:
I never use the SY-1000 FX loop. I connect the SY1000 Analog Stereo Output to one of the Axe-FX III stereo inputs (and the VG99 to another stereo input). Why don't you just connect the SY-1000 to the GT-1000 Return1/Return2 inputs? I assume that they can be routed internally to any position of the FX chain

At the SY-1000 I disable everything except the guitar modeling, and process the rest (AMP/CAB/FX) at the Axe-FX
Click to expand...
Thank you, this sounds like a ticket to guitar heaven... :)
 

Piing ...​

I just got an SY-1000 and think I Like the way you have it set up.
Can you please post a diagram of your set-up to the AXE-FX III or better yet, a preset of it so I can 'SEE' how you do it with all the settings?
 
I have a similar setup. It's quite simple, I plug into the 13-pin cable into the SY-1000 and then connect its main out to input 3 on the Axe-FX and then use the IN3 block on the grid, then I just treat the signal the same way I'd treat any other guitar input. The only difference is that sometimes in the SY-1000 patch I'll pan one of the instruments hard left, and one of them hard right... then in the Axe-FX III I use two amp blocks and set their inputs to "left only" and "right only" so I can run the instruments into separate amps.
 
JOHNNYROCKIT said:

Piing ...​

I just got an SY-1000 and think I Like the way you have it set up.
Can you please post a diagram of your set-up to the AXE-FX III or better yet, a preset of it so I can 'SEE' how you do it with all the settings?
Click to expand...

Congratulations for the purchase!

The connections depend on what you want to achieve, but I normally use the Axe-FX main input for the regular pickups, plug the SY1000 Main Output into one Axe-FX Stereo Input, and the SY1000 Sub Output into another Axe-FX Stereo Input. That allows you to separate some strings to process them separately. e.g.: you can play bass on strings 5-6 and other guitar type or synth on strings 1-4.

I never use the effects or the amp modeling of the SY-1000. Only the V-Guitar instruments section.

Here is one example:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...blocks-for-hex-processing.163063/post-1996697

I attach the preset I used for that recording. Right now I don't have the SY-1000 connected, so I cannot test it. I've had the SY-1000 and the VG-99 forgotten inside a drawer for a long time 😅
 

Attachments

  • VG+SY.syx
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Piing said:
I've rescued this "On the run" from http://archive.axefx.fr/ and converted to Axe-FX III. Not quite like the SY-1000 version, but it is interesting to see the possibilities
Click to expand...
Imagine if you combine this with the Floyd stuff NobulusPrime put up at VGF :hearteyes:

I have been integrating the SY with my Turbo the last few days. I have a strat that I have a GK mounted on but the playability as is now is flawless using a standard cable. For the setup to be optimized for the GK; I'd need to raise the action just enough where I am about say screw it and just use the SY in normal pickup mode. Tones are still rich and great on the synth side of things. You just don't have alt tuning and guitar modeling. Which I am ok with.

Boss should really do their usual trick of regurgitating the same thing over and over and release an SY Core without the amp modeling (that I have really come to despise).
 
Talking about PF, this a damn good guitar-sax from the VG-1000


Preset available here: https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=34445.0

It is a pity for Roland/Boss that there are still many guitarists believing that this device is a MIDI Guitar Synth, like the GR-55 and alike. But it is their fault, because they are the ones that have been advertising the 13-pin cable as a MIDI guitar cable, and have failed to promote the V-Guitar as a Guitar Modeler to differentiate it from the wobbly and mechanical pitch-to-MIDI technology to trigger a synth.
 
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Piing said:
Boss has released a firmware update to correct the warbles at the altered tunings. That was specially noticed when playing harmonics

This is a historical event, Boss/Roland releasing an update! It has come after several years sending many repair tickets, emails to the Boss CEO, and noise at the v.guitar forums.

https://www.boss.info/us/support/by...drivers/c311aff2-d3e6-43be-8b33-94dd1795235c/

Click to expand...

I installed the update yesterday. Seemed perhaps a placebo level of improvement. Little smoother sounding overall?

The synth part of the SY is really so much d@mn fun. I can't deny that. In the next iteration; it would be cool if they could bake a compressor block or boost capability before the oscillators. When I use presets in normal mode; I love using a dirt pedal or compressor up front to goose it and make it a little more "liquid" feeling.
 
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