MV Poll

Do want an authentic or idealized MV control?

  • Authentic

    Votes: 76 33.6%

  • Idealized

    Votes: 105 46.5%

  • Doesn't Matter

    Votes: 45 19.9%
  • Total voters
    226
From my perspective it’s mainly an issue with some real world Fender amps like the HRD, where they deliberately put in the wrong kind of pot to make it have a huge volume increase between 1 and 2. This seems to be for marketing reasons rather than sound, and I remember it being difficult to physically turn the knob slowly enough to find a good volume. It was a pain in the derrière.

It sounds like most amps don’t work that way, and Cliff indicated that for amps that have a “ridiculous” taper like this, he will replace it with a sensible one. So as long as the MV is not semi-unusable like in the HRD and older Blues Jr, I don’t mind either way.

I’ll just be a bit more nervous touching the MV while I’m wearing in-ears!!!
 
unix-guy said:
Have you ever accidentally entered 15 instead of -15 (when adjusting from -12 or so) on the Amp block level control in Axe-Edit while plugged into loud-ish FRFR speakers?

I have... Believe me when I tell you the Axe Fx did not clip the I/O and my Matrix did not go into protection mode.

But my tighty-whities sure did!

It's freaking loud and will scare the snot (or other bodily fluids) out of you.

MV is obviously different than Level but depending on the model can still make a big difference in overall level.

Anyway... Cliff will do what he thinks is best. I'll be fine with whatever his choice is...
Click to expand...
I actually did similar once, although I was trying to type -80Db in the level, (working on stereo sounds one side at a time) and accidentally missed the “-“ and took the amp block level all the way up, and I did clip the IO, and my speakers, but and yes it was loud, but not quite as bad as when I was in college jazz band and looking at the Fender Twin’s volume wrong took it from a manageable two to a three that shook the balconies. Or when I plugged into a JCM800 in a guitar store and touched its MV and it took off as well.

The benefit of the MV in the Axe is that it introduces the modeled power amp clipping as well. I guess I was trying to say that while it can be loud, it’s not quite as bad. But each system is set up different, so it can happen.
 
unix-guy said:
Have you ever accidentally entered 15 instead of -15 (when adjusting from -12 or so) on the Amp block level control in Axe-Edit while plugged into loud-ish FRFR speakers?

I have... Believe me when I tell you the Axe Fx did not clip the I/O and my Matrix did not go into protection mode.

But my tighty-whities sure did!

It's freaking loud and will scare the snot (or other bodily fluids) out of you.

MV is obviously different than Level but depending on the model can still make a big difference in overall level.

Anyway... Cliff will do what he thinks is best. I'll be fine with whatever his choice is...
Click to expand...
This is why I use a regular mouse instead of my apple mouse with axe-edit. Too easy for that touch scroll wheel to ruin everything lol.
 
Not sure if this has been suggested. How about on the authentic page the control sets the MV how the amp is in real life since this is assumed and from the idealized page it is set in an idealized manner? So basically both controls would be linked to the same parameter (MV) and would update accordingly. You would probably just need some UI hint about the taper of the control on each page.
 
Nick Barba said:
Not sure if this has been suggested. How about on the authentic page the control sets the MV how the amp is in real life since this is assumed and from the idealized page it is set in an idealized manner? So basically both controls would be linked to the same parameter (MV) and would update accordingly. You would probably just need some UI hint about the taper of the control on each page.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking you didn't read the whole thread ;)

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/mv-poll.170996/post-2059580
 
steadystate said:
Have you ever hit the gas instead of the brake? It's a general rule that bad things can happen when you fuck up in life.
Click to expand...
Yep, I have...

But I'm not sure I follow how the "rule" is relevant to the example I was making in the context of very minor changes in MV producing major volume changes.

It's not a "mistake" in that case but more like unexpected results.
 
unix-guy said:
Yep, I have...

But I'm not sure I follow how the "rule" is relevant to the example I was making in the context of very minor changes in MV producing major volume changes.

It's not a "mistake" in that case but more like unexpected results.
Click to expand...
I mean... Only if it's the 1st time you've turned the knob.
 
unix-guy said:
Yep, I have...

But I'm not sure I follow how the "rule" is relevant to the example I was making in the context of very minor changes in MV producing major volume changes.

It's not a "mistake" in that case but more like unexpected results.
Click to expand...
It was relevant as an analogy to hitting plus instead of minus when entering a level value. Sounds like an oopsie to me. Going from -12 to +15 is quite a jump. I expect bad things to happen.
 
steadystate said:
It was relevant as an analogy to hitting plus instead of minus when entering a level value. Sounds like an oopsie to me. Going from -12 to +15 is quite a jump. I expect bad things to happen.
Click to expand...
Yeah... It was, but the point of the post was not about making a mistake.

I was posting an example showing that a drastic change in volume can happen without clipping the Axe Fx or the power amp.

I agree with you that making a mistake can definitely have bad consequences, though!
 
As I'm participating in a standards setting organization, I also initially had understanding that making this configurable is the compromise. This is what we usually do when no consensus.
But here I see at least one technical issue. To avoid the volume jumps when switching between modes you need to store e.g. the true linear value and show only the resulting log xA value. However, the real issue is that a number in one scale may not be represented in another scale with the granularity of control of 0.01 we have.

Probably one minor suggestion would be to put an additional label on the screen around the Master knob which shows the used scale: log 15A, log 10A, etc. without the ability to configure, just for information.
 
I might add a suggestion, since Cliff has the idea to use the idealized taper only when it doesn’t make sense, could we have something in the UI to denote the difference? That way people aren’t always asking for clarification as to why it works one way on one amp and not another. Perhaps the MV knob itself has a different look or a box or something depending on the taper (authentic or idealize). How hard would that be to implement?
 
Johnnyh64 said:
I might add a suggestion, since Cliff has the idea to use the idealized taper only when it doesn’t make sense, could we have something in the UI to denote the difference? That way people aren’t always asking for clarification as to why it works one way on one amp and not another. Perhaps the MV knob itself has a different look or a box or something depending on the taper (authentic or idealize). How hard would that be to implement?
Click to expand...
Or maybe an ideal/authentic switch like the one we have for saturation.
Or a taper selector like the one in the volume block
 
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