Most annoying part of being a musician?

RoshRoslin said:
"So anyways, what do you do for a living?"
"I'm a full-time working musician"
"Oh that's great, so what do you do for money?"
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So true. I respond with this usually:

"What do you do?"
"I'm a musician."
"Oh awesome, do you have a job?"
"... Yes, I'm a musician. It means I have 4 jobs. Playing live, recording bands, teaching lessons, and composing."
 
I might've painted with a broad brush but I don't think it's a misconception. Your list of readers who aren't merely playback machines might go on and on but I can put together a much longer list of folks who can read music but can't pull it from the ether, particularly on keys.

RoshRoslin said:
I think this is a huge misconception about anyone who reads really well. I'll give you three examples: Jimmy Page, Steve Lukather and John Coltrane. I will say that these dudes can play circles around most musicians and area amazing improvisers, writers and artists. The list goes on and on.
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Correct me if I am wrong but you also play guitar right? If that is the case you are excluded from above example...... LOL...... :lol
BBN said:
Man, you guys are playing with the wrong singers!!!!
I'm the lead vocalist.

I own at least 3 PA's.
I bring the PA to every gig (and I'll give credit to my guitar player who helps by transporting a subwoofer to the gigs....as I can't fit it all).
I own the drum mics (that's actually a pet peeve of mine).
I book the gigs.
I bring the set lists.
I maintain the website.
I track the gigs (16 track) and mix them down for us to listen to.
I built a sound proof room in my house for band practice. (which has a drum set, bass rig, guitar rigs and PA...which I own).

I do it all because I love it.
(well, except for the drum mics)
Not patting myself on the back (well maybe a little), but just saying that there are singers out there that have their sh*t together.
My guys do help though as well, they help loading/unloading at the gig, and everyone has a role when setting up the PA.

Gotta build a good team....that's the way I look at it. Slackers gotta go. My view on slacker band members is - they will be as irresponsible as you will allow them to be.
Choose wisely....
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aleclee said:
Reading is a great skill. I had a seminar with a guitarist who was in the SNL band and she was quite clear that she wouldn't have gotten the gig without being a skilled sight reader. The problem is, as I stated earlier, that a lot of those folks can't play squat without music in front of them. They have zero ability to play by ear and don't know enough music theory to follow a I-IV-V in C major. Finally, I don't want to have to source sheet music for every song my band is going to play. The expense and brain damage of assembling music for anybody (let alone everybody) makes it a losing proposition IMO.
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I'm happy to say I don't play with people like this. Everyone I play with sight reads and has great ears. But with my group of folks you HAVE to be able to sight read well. AND you have to be able to improvise and play by ear. Gigs are written music and very often just play other songs completely by ear. I have compiled many gigs books.
 
aleclee said:
I might've painted with a broad brush but I don't think it's a misconception. Your list of readers who aren't merely playback machines might go on and on but I can put together a much longer list of folks who can read music but can't pull it from the ether, particularly on keys.
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All aspects of music are actually developed skills under the umbrella of "playing music". I think your misconception is that reading and improvisation are somehow related or intertwined when they are actually exclusive.

The people you're referring to have probably worked on their reading a ton, and their improvisation skills very little. There are probably things you and I have worked on a lot but we have gaps and holes in other places.

You can develop your skills as an improviser. Some people do it naturally, others learn licks, lines, ideas or play melodies they hear in their heads. There are tons of books written about it. Hal Crook's "how to improvise" comes to mind.

The misconception is simple. Your statements hint that: If people haven't developed their skill set to learn how to improvise, (or write, or produce, or read, or play the blues, or play in time, or play with a swing feel, or play 2-3 clave) then it must somehow be related to their reading ability and also their skill as a musician. It's not. You can work on anything in music if you focus on it. Classical musicians probably don't work on their improvisation skills as much as Jazz Musicians do. The same way Jazz musicians don't work on string bends as much as blues and rock players do.

It's the old "Wes Montgomery plugging into a Marshall, is he still a great musician debate" all over again.

I could go on, but that hopefully illustrates my point.
 
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Yes, you're painting with a way too wide a brush. Reading is a separate skill from improvisation. I've worked with some classical musicians who couldn't improvise their way out of a paper bag, but could read perfectly. I've played with musicians who can't read a lick but could improvise well. And as I said, the folks I work with can do both.
 
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henryrobinett said:
One if the most annoying parts if being a musician for me is dealing with musicians themselves. Guys who are late, flake, don't come to rehearsal or GIGS prepared, cancel at the last minute.
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Yep. Other musicians. Stoned bassists and schizo drummers who keep whipping out their junk. And we all know about lead singers!
 
steadystate said:
Cigarette/cigar smoke. Hands down. Any other annoyance is trivial by comparison, and won't give me cancer.
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You win on this one!
Recently I went with the wife to visit family in Russia. Went to a big party and they asked me to play with the band a bit. (Funny how they can get so worked up on "Mustang Sally") I had forgotten how bad/thick the smoke can be in small clubs/bars. I couldn't breath. I couldn't believe no one else wasn't making a big stink. They eventually opened a back door and that only let in freezing cold. I think I am way to old for that sort of thing.
P.S. The dancing and party was great though. Great people..


Loopie...
 
Te debate about reading sheet music rages on I see! :)

I'll make the language analogy. Reading, writing, speaking (playing), and construction (theory).

These four areas make up the use of a language, and translate itself into fluency. Without a working knowledge of all areas, a person can be fluent, but for deeper understanding, you need a working knowledge of all areas. That doesn't mean you have to read like an orchestral musician, be able to write like George Gershwin or improvise like Satch, but a knowledge and ability to do these areas to some level is needed.

For instance, I've been improvising since I was 13, over 12 bars with my brother. That's the speaking part, and it came first to me. Reading, writing and construction came together, where I learned how to write riffs, songs, and delved deeper, discovered what worked, what I like and what I didn't, and did all of this through tab, but with an accurate knowledge of crotchets and semiquavers. Treble clef notation came after when I went down the classical route, and I gained a further insight into melody, harmony and construction by being able to see it in piano pieces, violin pieces, etc. On the writing side, the best advice I got was to write without your instrument. That's a true test of how much of a musician you are to me, being able to put ideas down on paper, not necessarily in clef form, but to be able to hear it in your head and relate that to writing.

It's true that a whole host of contemporary musicians don't read, and possibly can't read sheet music, and to discredit their input based on this is silly, but there's only one Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix, etc. Collectively, these people who are ground breakers make up less than 1% of guitar players worldwide. If orchestral musicians were to ignore the ability to read because Yehudi Menuhin, or Nigel Kennedy didn't read, then the orchestra as we know it wouldn't exist, and a lot of that music would go unheard. People say it's different circumstances, but I can't help thinking that if guitar reading was more prevalent then there wouldn't be so many covers bands around with bad approximations of songs.
 
AminorZmajor said:
Correct me if I am wrong but you also play guitar right? If that is the case you are excluded from above example...... LOL...... :lol
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Solid point.....you are correct.

I will say, I do know plenty of singers that just sing....and most of them are lazy as hell.
It's annoying to witness.
 
In my band I sing backup but primary duty is guitar. I also own two PA's and we know the reason. 8)

BBN said:
Solid point.....you are correct.

I will say, I do know plenty of singers that just sing....and most of them are lazy as hell.
It's annoying to witness.
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RoshRoslin said:
The misconception is simple. Your statements hint that: If people haven't developed their skill set to learn how to improvise, (or write, or produce, or read, or play the blues, or play in time, or play with a swing feel, or play 2-3 clave) then it must somehow be related to their reading ability and also their skill as a musician. It's not. You can work on anything in music if you focus on it. Classical musicians probably don't work on their improvisation skills as much as Jazz Musicians do. The same way Jazz musicians don't work on string bends as much as blues and rock players do.
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You're forgetting the context of my original statement. Someone who's spent their musical life focused on reading without developing the ability to "pull music from the ether" (and most amateur musicians lack the bandwidth to be skilled in both) is likely going to struggle in a rock or blues band. They can play up their "classical training" but at the end of they day their skills are a gross mismatch for the gig. That's not to disparage the skills they've developed. It's just irritating when they play up their training as something that could possibly be a substitute for the skills actually needed for the gig.
 
aleclee said:
You're forgetting the context of my original statement. Someone who's spent their musical life focused on reading without developing the ability to "pull music from the ether" (and most amateur musicians lack the bandwidth to be skilled in both) is likely going to struggle in a rock or blues band. They can play up their "classical training" but at the end of they day their skills are a gross mismatch for the gig. That's not to disparage the skills they've developed. It's just irritating when they play up their training as something that could possibly be a substitute for the skills actually needed for the gig.
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Oh, yeah I agree. "Classical training" or any other "training" people play up on any skill level is pretty much worthless if you can't do what the gig requires. I've met people with music degrees (Bachelor's and up) who struggle on top 40 gigs. They're just not equipped to handle what is required, lack the work ethic, or the degree focus was somewhere else (Ie education, songwriting, production etc.).

The skills have to be on par with the gig. Plain and simple. I would never venture to say I could go do a night at Disney Hall with the LA Phil, in the same way I could expect one of their violin players to get up and do 4 sets of country fiddle with me on a Saturday night. The guy may be able to do both, but that means he's really worked on his skillset to meet the requirements for the both gigs regardless of "classical" (or otherwise) training.

Glad we are on a consensus :)
 
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