Wish Modeling the clean channel Amps

don_joe said:
Let us just focus on two things: a) user experience and b) "a wish list".

a) Is it allowed for a Fractal user to want to have all the channels of a certain amp or is this wish a priori a blasphemy? Not all users want to think about the circuits and possible solutions. Some would just appreciate this aspect of functionality under a logic that really needs no further explanation.

b) Isn't a "wish" a self-explanatory term? If mocking is the answer, delete the wish section of the forum.

Those that don't want to support a wish, should just ignore it. It looks hard but it isn't.
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some guys in the forum are like bees around the barbecue , you are gently cooking some meat , and you have these bees saying "bzzz bzzz bzzz , you are wrong , bzz bzz bzz " hahaha .
the same guys you see on their knees, praising the sun, at every updates,when cliff give them one of our wishes .
Pardon them, jesus .
 
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My name is mud said:
some guys in the forum are like bees around the barbecue , you are gently cooking some meat , and you have these bees saying "bzzz bzzz bzzz , you are wrong , bzz bzz bzz " hahaha .
the same guys you see on their knees praising the sun at every update when cliff give them one of our wishes .
Pardon them, jesus .
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I find the best part speaking on someone else's behalf. If A addresses B with a wish, why does C without an official mandate to do so, have to chime in?
 
don_joe said:
I find the best part speaking on someone else's behalf. If A addresses B with a wish, why does C without an official mandate to do so, have to chime in?
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Official mandate? hahahahaha. You guys forgot what a public forum is.

What's also funny is that the two that complain the most have been on the forum for maybe a couple years? Less?
 
@My name is mud You get it! Power amps make a huge difference in tone. This is even more important to us Marshall guys. Mesa could do their amps with SS power amps and it wouldn't make that much difference. A Marshall OTOH, relies way more on the PA section. That includes even the higher gain amps like the JCM 900 and DSLs. A good example to hear this is to go to www.zombiecabs.com and download their free Mesa cab that has different power amps that were used to shoot the IRs. You can hear the difference between an SS amp and 17 different tube amp power amp sections. Now, some guys will say shooting IRs with tube power amps is not the right way to do it but, load these up on the AF and tell me you don't hear and feel the difference. It is as much a difference or more so than the AF speaker impedance curve.
https://zombiecabs.com/free-impulse-responses/

I know a little about this because it is I who made those IRs :) I am not technically still the owner of the site. The IRs there are only 125ms but I still have all the original IRs and am allowed to use them or even start another site on my own. The current owner is my brother and he is the "Web guy". We had a bit of a falling out on how to do the site and what to include etc. Some day if I can find a "Web guy" I will make another site with the higher res IRs and not soo many Tube variations. Just a tube family (EL34/6L6/EL84/6V6) with a Modern/Vintage amp is more ideal I think. Using tube amps to shoot IRs is not just a plug and play thing either. There is a bit more to it.
 
TakaraGold said:
What's also funny is that the two that complain the most have been on the forum for maybe a couple years? Less?
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I wasn’t in the forum when I owned the 2 for ex. And many guys play an axe without being there …
This is again one funny thing . A “newbie” in the forum with 10 posts can be a killer guitarist who have tour the world and may teach the “fractal fanatic” members a lot of things. Never judge someone by his forum account …
 
My name is mud said:
I wasn’t in the forum when I owned the 2 for ex. And many guys play an axe without being there …
This is again one funny thing . A “newbie” in the forum with 10 posts can be a killer guitarist who have tour the world and may teach the “fractal fanatic” members a lot of things. Never judge someone by his forum account …
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Not debating skills. You missed the point. Take care.
 
TakaraGold said:
Official mandate? hahahahaha. You guys forgot what a public forum is.

What's also funny is that the two that complain the most have been on the forum for maybe a couple years? Less?
Click to expand...

If your definition of a public forum is to publicly answer a question that was not meant for you, then you are right.
 
don_joe said:
Let us just focus on two things: a) user experience and b) "a wish list".

a) Is it allowed for a Fractal user to want to have all the channels of a certain amp or is this wish a priori a blasphemy? Not all users want to think about the circuits and possible solutions. Some would just appreciate this aspect of functionality under a logic that really needs no further explanation.

b) Isn't a "wish" a self-explanatory term? If mocking is the answer, delete the wish section of the forum.

Those that don't want to support a wish, should just ignore it. It looks hard but it isn't.
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Oleee!. I'm.sorry,I'm spanish😅. Is the best possible answer for some people that are against the wishes and the thinking of other users. 👌
 
May I add... If you build two amp, same exact poweramp, different preamp, and try to build an amp with both preamp adding a tube pre, you have to adjust transformer, caps, resistor to have identical voltage value. But when you play, they will sound somehow different. By adding a tube pre, outside of the signal path, load the circuit and make it behave different. Some people like it, some don't.
 
RICARH said:
Please, it will be so usefull for me to have the clean channel of the carvin legacy,the marshall jvm hjs (or marshall 6100), to recreate the Joe Satriani/ Steve vai sounds in clean channel with drive pedals
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esp the JVM410H - I really need them - would even pay for it ;-)
My main issue is - I want to play guitar - and dont work with schematics of amps or use my time to find amps ..
Am even Software Engineer and studied electronics - but am really not interessted in building or analyzing amps ..
What I cannot understand in terms of JVM - its one of the mostsold amps since years and so the clean channels should be a must have ..
However but I understand restricted resources ..
 
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laxu said:
When in doubt, it's most likely a Fender Deluxe/Super/Twin clean channel so try one of those.

But the real solution is to stop worrying about the actual model so much and just using what you feel sounds great.
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For me its more like - having the sound I have at my Marshall instead of sth else.
Am happy and I dont want something else ..
And I have a Fender and it sounds VERY different.
 
Ugly Bunny said:
This is a really good point; I guess it's all a matter of who the onus falls on: the user to do the research to figure out what tone stacks are identical to the one they want already in the unit or the manufacturer for simply copying/pasting an amp they already have, rename the copy to the desired amp, and then make everyone happy by adding one more amp. Of course, I doubt any are IDENTICAL copies, even if close, and Cliff doesn't seem to be one who would be willing to sacrifice his reputation by doing something like that (otherwise, he would have given us a Klon many years ago lol!). Interesting idea, though.
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It seems this is the main point ..
So what can we do - buy a Neural until my AXE FX is able to do it for me ..
I should have checked this out before I spend that much money ..
 
Steffen Bernd said:
It seems this is the main point ..
So what can we do - buy a Neural until my AXE FX is able to do it for me ..
I should have checked this out before I spend that much money ..
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Go buy a Kemper or Quad, name your profiles/captures "JVM clean" and feel better about yourself. Done.
 
Steffen Bernd said:
For me its more like - having the sound I have at my Marshall instead of sth else.
Am happy and I dont want something else ..
And I have a Fender and it sounds VERY different.
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Try a Fender into a Marshall 4x12 cab.



There's honestly a lot of multichannel amps out there where the clean channel is based on a Fender circuit of some sort but usually the cab paired with those amps is something other than what you would find in Fender combos so it ends up sounding quite different. If you were to run those amps into the Jensens of a Fender combo you might find the sound familiar but the overdrive channels would most likely sound like ass so a compromise like a cab with Greenbacks or V30s ends up working better.

Or if you wanted to keep things Marshall, use the JTM45 or Superlead models for your clean channel with the gain and/or input trim turned down. That's cool too.

There's 300 amp models to choose from and a lot of clean options yet people are going "nope, can't do it, I need clean channel of amp X!" because they get hung up on that named amp model instead of figuring out what else could do what they want.

As an example, the last two tube amps I owned were a Bogner Goldfinger 45 Superlead and a Victory VC35. Neither are modeled by Fractal. However:
  • Bogner's clean channel is similar to the Super Reverb model.
  • Bogner's drive channel in all its modes can be replicated with 50W Plexi, JCM800 and Bogner Shiva models.
  • Victory can be replicated with the Morgan AC-20 Deluxe 12AX7 model.
The knowledge I had to do this was "Bogner is a Fender based clean channel with a Marshall based drive channel and the Victory is based on a Vox" which narrows down the amount of models to try to a handful. Then all I needed to do was try things out and dial by ear, using my favorite tones on the real amps as reference.

While it's cool that the real Bogner for example could do all that, Fractal already had all those sounds in it and way more on top, switchable immediately without adjusting anything else!
 
My name is mud said:
Never judge someone by his forum account …
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I was debating between usernames yyz, dumb-as-fck, screw_u_guys and Modelers Blow.

Whichever I would have chosen, I'm confident I would have been treated exactly the same on here. ;)
 
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laxu said:
Try a Fender into a Marshall 4x12 cab.



There's honestly a lot of multichannel amps out there where the clean channel is based on a Fender circuit of some sort but usually the cab paired with those amps is something other than what you would find in Fender combos so it ends up sounding quite different. If you were to run those amps into the Jensens of a Fender combo you might find the sound familiar but the overdrive channels would most likely sound like ass so a compromise like a cab with Greenbacks or V30s ends up working better.

Or if you wanted to keep things Marshall, use the JTM45 or Superlead models for your clean channel with the gain and/or input trim turned down. That's cool too.

There's 300 amp models to choose from and a lot of clean options yet people are going "nope, can't do it, I need clean channel of amp X!" because they get hung up on that named amp model instead of figuring out what else could do what they want.

As an example, the last two tube amps I owned were a Bogner Goldfinger 45 Superlead and a Victory VC35. Neither are modeled by Fractal. However:
  • Bogner's clean channel is similar to the Super Reverb model.
  • Bogner's drive channel in all its modes can be replicated with 50W Plexi, JCM800 and Bogner Shiva models.
  • Victory can be replicated with the Morgan AC-20 Deluxe 12AX7 model.
The knowledge I had to do this was "Bogner is a Fender based clean channel with a Marshall based drive channel and the Victory is based on a Vox" which narrows down the amount of models to try to a handful. Then all I needed to do was try things out and dial by ear, using my favorite tones on the real amps as reference.

While it's cool that the real Bogner for example could do all that, Fractal already had all those sounds in it and way more on top, switchable immediately without adjusting anything else!
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Had a look at the video ..

From my perspective the Fender into Marshall wont sound the same. Even in the video it sounded much thinner ..
Next to my Marshall JVM410H I have the 1960 AHW with the G30H Speakers .. and this is by distance my favorite sound so far .
Today I doublechecked with the AXE FX - alle the proposed clean tones - and its so far from comparable. Thougth I really have my OD1 and OD2 .. this works .. I even get a plexy sound at the OD2 when the gain is very low .. and full volume .. also this sound is in the AXE FX ..
But I dont get my clean and crunch ..

I will next checkout my Fender Supersonic to my marshall cab .. and then AXE FX JTM 45 to some other cabinets ..
or maybe bogner into marshall cab .. maybe have even to by some cab IRs .. which are missing ..
For crunch - with mods the JVM sound like a JCM 800 . .. So I may tryout this
Too bad that I did not see any CAB IRs of the AHW - as it even sounds different from an 1960A with the same speakers ..
The back of the cab is of different wood.
 
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