Wish Modeling the clean channel Amps

[My name is mud]

sorry I disagree with the clean of the recto , I ve played years and years with distortion units in recto's clean and it was great sounding . It was a way to not have this huge volume gap between the dist and clean channel in those amp, and do not use a boost to have a pure clean /heavy dist in a switch , the 5150 overdrive was very nice sounding on it . the clean is weak in volume compared to the dist channel , but the sound itself is warm and very pedal friendly . I always loved the cleans in my road and whatever mesas . Yes, warm .

Now that we have the JMP in the beta , cant wait to have all the others clean sounds one by one !
because we all know that Cliff is the cutest man on earth (lick lick)

 

[Smilzo]

sorry I disagree with the clean of the recto , I ve played years and years with distortion units in recto's clean and it was great sounding .

I agree with your disagree... there's no "bad sound", there are sounds that fit your need while others don't. That's why I suggested to split preamp and poweramp, there could be many sounds that feels right to us players!

 

[cole lewis]

sorry I disagree with the clean of the recto , I ve played years and years with distortion units in recto's clean and it was great sounding . It was a way to not have this huge volume gap between the dist and clean channel in those amp, and do not use a boost to have a pure clean /heavy dist in a switch , the 5150 overdrive was very nice sounding on it . the clean is weak in volume compared to the dist channel , but the sound itself is warm and very pedal friendly . I always loved the cleans in my road and whatever mesas . Yes, warm .

Now that we have the JMP in the beta , cant wait to have all the others clean sounds one by one !
because we all know that Cliff is the cutest man on earth (lick lick)

I'm enjoying the JMP cleans, they're fine. Butttt... I would love an explanation as to why on earth anyone would need these cleans over ANY of the other models. Like honestly asking for more amp models at this point, I genuinely feel insane. All that has really happened if is I now have an emotional reaction going on where my brain is like, oh wow all the JMP1 channels are in here now.

If you look at the last year or so, amp model requests seem to me to be getting less and less frequent.

I used to actually switch through and "try out" amp models wayyyyy more often. I find myself 90% of the time I plug in just hearing an amazing tone and playing my guitar and not touching anything.

On the mesa dual rectifier clean. I can remember vividly, everyone would tell you simple as they can. The mesa mark series cleans are 10x better than the recitifer. People used to have triaxis rack rigs with rectifier racks as well in their racks. Which clean channel do you think you would be choosing in that scenario? If the rectifier clean channel was added, people would use it for one or a few days. Then likely practically never touch the thing again. Why? Because it's not the best option or even close to it. Same with the JMP1 clean. Is anyone really going to put this in a patch that isn't just a JMP1 "full rig" preset? Not often.

It's been said a million times but almost every clean channel amp is a blackface fender copy, if I was cliff I wouldn't bother modeling every single one of those either. It's a genuine waste of his valuable time. I want cliff using his giant brain and not slaving away modeling every clean channel that all sound 90% the same and accomplish the exact same tasks.

If you go into a real studio right now, you are recording your new album. You walk in there and lets say you are making a record like the band Opeth. Okay so you need what, a good high gain amp to lay down the heavy tracks, the engineer has a dual rectifier, okay great. Now you need a clean amp for all the melodic soft parts that are going to be on the album. Okay, the engineer has a mint condition brownface vibrolux he bought for 6 grand. Oh but sir engineer, I would rather the dual rectifiers clean channel because that matches the recto.... Do you guys see how insane this is????? The engineer is going to look at you like you just swallowed a tub of acid. And he would be completely justified...

And I use opeth as an example because... guess what. When they record their clean parts they use FENDERSSSSSSSS. They have access to the decent laney VH clean channel, literally a totally fine clean channel by any metric.. They STILL use the fenders in studio.

 

[My name is mud]

I'm enjoying the JMP cleans, they're fine. Butttt... I would love an explanation as to why on earth anyone would need these cleans over ANY of the other models

Imagine that you play your whole life with a jmp1 and buy an axe . You are happy to have exactly what you had before. Nothing more .

If I have an amp in a modeler, I don’t want half of the amp, but the whole thing . Don’t know what is hard to understand in there .

That you don’t need it, that’s a thing, but yeah some people who like the amp wants to have the whole deal.

Me too I don’t care to have a … Zappa amp for example. Or a 3rd lfo in a delay, but we all have our wish. If people are happy is all that matters

That’s a simulator of real stuff first . Some guy see the axe as a tone builder, some others as a collection of amps they cannot afford.

Having the real amps make us dream . Having just an interface with 50 buttons to create a tone is another concept . Having both is the axe fx 3

 

[My name is mud]

can. The mesa mark series cleans are 10x better than the recitifer

Wrong. Rectifiers are pedal friendly, and the mark are not . Put a distortion pedal in a mark you ll see what I mean.

If you look at the last year or so, amp model requests seem to me to be getting less and less frequent

Because they are all already asked maybe . Check the master wish list and see how many amps are requested. 50? More ? We are not allowed to ask an amp in 10 different treads.

i don’t see myself going in someone else wish tread, saying “no cliff don’t do this, do that better” ….

Maybe I should cry on the floor : boo hoo hoo cliff has release 3 fender jump models , spending time on this better then releasing the badlander boo hoo hoo .

We. Don’t. Have. The. Same. Wishes.
We. don’t. Play. The. Same. Music
Respect everyone’s wishes .

Opeth ... I saw them live before dream theater, it was super boring

 

[cole lewis]

That you don’t need it, that’s a thing, but yeah some people who like the amp wants to have the whole deal.

I respect your wishes. If you WANT the dual rectifier clean channel thats cool man.

 

[TakaraGold]

Here is the mark 2c+ Schematic .

View attachment 95785

But Joe … I m musician, that’s not my job to try to model an amp with a schematic, I m not asking Cliff to play malmsteen songs on guitar you know . It’s 100 times more easy for him to copy paste things and to write “mark 2c+” clean, even if it’s a fender .
Every amp sound different . Based is not being .

We don't need redundancies taking up space just because you like to see all the channels. That's the culprit. We need more space for new amps and improvements. New flavors. Not copying and paste and changing the name of the model because you think it looks better.
There's an awesome thing here as well. If you investigate hard enough, you can change key elemtns within the amp's block configuration, and acquire or get "that" specific amp channel you can't live without.

 

[cole lewis]

We don't need redundancies taking up space just because you like to see all the channels. That's the culprit. We need more space for new amps and improvements. New flavors. Not copying and paste and changing the name of the model because you think it looks better.
There's an awesome thing here as well. If you investigate hard enough, you can change key elemtns within the amp's block configuration, and acquire or get "that" specific amp channel you can't live without.

Say I am doing a cover of a band. They used dual recifiers for everything. I want to sound as close as possible to that album. I swear to the potato god himself, no one listening to the cover is going to be like.... Ewww he did the cleans with a fender twin axe fx amp model and not the rectifier clean channel...

This is all I'm saying...

I'll leave any bands name out this time so I don't have to hear the "yea that band sucks response".

Can someone give me a solid number on how many amp models can be in the axe FX until we are at the point of utter insanity? 1000? 2000? 10,000?

 

[TSJMajesty]

Okay, the engineer has a mint condition brownface vibrolux he bought for 6 grand. Oh but sir engineer, I would rather the dual rectifiers clean channel because that matches the recto.... Do you guys see how insane this is????? The engineer is going to look at you like you just swallowed a tub of acid. And he would be completely justified...

Other than knowing the DR either shares the circuitry of an SLO 100, or was a total rip-off, depending on who you ask, I don't know much about amp design evolution. But I realize we don't have the clean channels of some amps (like the DR) because they exist elsewhere, close enough that Cliff saw no need to model them.

I don't know Fender amps like some guys here, but I just pulled up the Deluxe Verb factory preset, turned on the chorus, comp, & delay as is, and got the most glorious clean tones I could ever imagine wanting, or even needing out of this thing! (Maybe not quite that good, but certainly pretty damn awesome for spending all of a few minutes looking for a very nice clean tone.)

I played with the coil tap and Piezo on my guitar, and found it covered a lot of ground, from Drive (311) to On The Backs of Angels to Another Brick in the Wall to Babe I'm Gonna Leave You. I'm sure I could scout around further into Class A amp territory, or Marshall non-MV, or several other offerings here, to get even closer, certainly close enough to never be in want of anything else.

I'm sure my ear isn't as refined as others, but I'm finding it pretty easy to locate whatever it is I could desire, that if FAS never added another amp model, it wouldn't matter (to me.)

 

[Stratman68]

I guess the good ole guitar days are gone for good.........IOW, it used to be about the "sound". You know, pick up your guitar and dial in the sound you want. Now the brand matters more than the sound. Sorry but there are only so many AMPS, then it's redundant.
I get the wishlist, fine. That's why it is there. But it seems to me the answer was given. So?
But if I was searching for a specific sound I have to believe I would find it in the FM9\FM3, which are what I presently own. Let alone the III, which I don't own but I know has more options.
Sorry,
EDIT: I also feel if this happens that's cool also!

 

[TakaraGold]

Thanks for understand the wish. I don't know about the electronic eschemes of the amps. It's not my work. I bought a product of a greatest company and is my wish because they can do it (not only the distortion channels). This is not a Rocksmith game, we are musicians and we want to play with the best clean amps too.

this is entitlement at it's finest. Sorry.

 

[My name is mud]

And they say that 2 same amps models may sound different but we need to believe that all the cleans in the world are a fender blackface ?

So why cliff release new fender jump model this week? No one told him that he can have these models with tweaks ? Or that is “redundant” as we already have 20 fenders? (I like these new ad myself)

you have to put yourself in the place of someone who has only had 2/3 amps in his life, buys an axe fx and may be surprised that the channels of the amp are missing by having bought the sharpest model in its category. what i don't like too much about the story is the killjoy replies every time a user asks for a new thing. If you're not interested, move on.

 

[Smilzo]

And they say that 2 same amps models may sound different but we need to believe that all the cleans in the world are a fender blackface ?

So why cliff release new fender jump model this week? No one told him that he can have these models with tweaks ? Or that is “redundant” as we already have 20 fenders? (I like these new ad myself)

you have to put yourself in the place of someone who has only had 2/3 amps in his life, buys an axe fx and may be surprised that the channels of the amp are missing by having bought the sharpest model in its category. what i don't like too much about the story is the killjoy replies every time a user asks for a new thing. If you're not interested, move on.

There are very few circuit differences in many modeled amps, most of real amps have only some different values in few components.
There are 2, 3, 4, 4 plus cold stage gain preamps; combine them with few different poweramp section (CF, drivers, ultralinear, push pull...) what we get is 50 different amps topology? So why many different models in the axefx? I think for user satisfaction. Familiarity. Cliff could give us a table, and tell us what value to tweak if we want to go from a lead SLO 100 to lead in DR. But I don't think medium guitar player could understand than "cold stage preamp 100w PP" are the starting point for a SLO or DR. Same for clean channel of every multichannel modern preamp.

 

[My name is mud]

That’s it. We are not suppose to be amp tech to

There are very few circuit differences in many modeled amps, most of real amps have only some different values in few components.
There are 2, 3, 4, 4 plus cold stage gain preamps; combine them with few different poweramp section (CF, drivers, ultralinear, push pull...) what we get is 50 different amps topology? So why many different models in the axefx? I think for user satisfaction. Familiarity. Cliff could give us a table, and tell us what value to tweak if we want to go from a lead SLO 100 to lead in DR. But I don't think medium guitar player could understand than "cold stage preamp 100w PP" are the starting point for a SLO or DR. Same for clean channel of every multichannel modern preamp.

That’s it. We are not supposed to be amp tech to enjoy a modeler. Give the geeks their options but don’t forget that 99% of users are guitarists . All these things are interesting, but when your goal is to play guitar, you choose the amp and play with it. Tell a guitarist to search for a similar amp stack because the red diode is similar etc lol and see him running to a kemper … how many time we read that the axe is too much complex and that’s the main reason they sold it …

A driver don’t built a car to drive, even the best ones. Everyone has his skills in his domain . For cliff some things are evidence, because he understand it. but if I ask a tech which is the relative minor scale of D major, I m not sure he will tell me back B minor.

 

[don_joe]

Let us just focus on two things: a) user experience and b) "a wish list".

a) Is it allowed for a Fractal user to want to have all the channels of a certain amp or is this wish a priori a blasphemy? Not all users want to think about the circuits and possible solutions. Some would just appreciate this aspect of functionality under a logic that really needs no further explanation.

b) Isn't a "wish" a self-explanatory term? If mocking is the answer, delete the wish section of the forum.

Those that don't want to support a wish, should just ignore it. It looks hard but it isn't.

 

[Michael R]

When it comes to clean amp channels, I think maybe a lot of guys don't understand this one thing: Not all of us like a clean tone with 6L6 power amps. I for example prefer an EL34 tone. Oh but you can just change the power tubes to EL34! I call BS on this! As someone who has lived and played a few decades using rack gear preamps and power amps and amp heads with Fx loops as power amps, a power amp is a huge part of the tone. I have spent decades using a JMP-1 preamp with countless power amp sections. A Mesa DR amp after installing EL34 tubes sounds NOTHING like an amp that was designed to use EL34 power tubes, like any Marshall amp.

I appreciate that Cliff has decided to add the clean chs of the JMP-1. I got to ask though, why do the JMP-1 models have an input EQ that is not flat??

 

[laxu]

And they say that 2 same amps models may sound different but we need to believe that all the cleans in the world are a fender blackface ?

You might be surprised how many are based on Fender blackface amps. The issue with Fractal is that you can't know which particular Fender would be the closest match to a particular amp's clean channel. It's most likely a Fender Twin at least for high gainers.

I find myself increasingly less interested in the exact amp models emulated and just focusing on getting tones that I like. You could probably chop the amp model list in half without losing a single tone because there's so many derivative amps that sound very similar if you put them through the same cab sims (or poweramp and real cab).

So I'm not at all surprised that Fractal is less interested in adding every amp out there that people cry for in wishlists. Making what is there sound better seems like a more sensible goal.

 

[My name is mud]

@don_joe Amen !

A Mesa DR amp after installing EL34 tubes sounds NOTHING like an amp that was designed to use EL34 power tubes, like any Marshall amp.

Amen too ! in the roadking when i switched to el34 i didnt have a marshall !!!!! it is more complex than that .

@laxu Me too in the end i tweak to my taste, it's not like i'm not playing with my unit everyday, because i have some "wishes" to make it even more perfect to me . But first I like to start with the standard tone of the amp, and I go to the advanced parameter only if it really needs it , I love making presets amps by amps, with all the channels in different scenes . stupid , not stupid ... I'm old school first , I'm attached with the real deal but i really like the comfort and the all in one thing in the axe . this is a super unit and even if he stops all the updates now I m happy with it . but having all the channels for each amps ? f*** yeah !

 

[My name is mud]

You might be surprised how many are based on Fender blackface amps. The issue with Fractal is that you can't know which particular Fender would be the closest match to a particular amp's clean channel. It's most likely a Fender Twin at least for high gainers.

And I wont deny this , but how many guitars are based on a fender stratocaster but are not sounding like a fender stratocaster ? all of them ! lol . luthier forgot that a strat buzz and all the shitty details they have make it sound like a strat . A perfect strat is not a strat . so the guys who believe that putting EL34 in a neutral power amp is a marshall ... it s like nutella or coca cola men . things are not so easy

 

[TakaraGold]

This post is like reading whiny 11 year olds who didn't get one toy while having a thousand toys in the room.
Guys you didn't buy this unit because it'll be modded according to your likings. You don't understand the culprit, you just like to see all the names there. If it's redundant it won't be there. It's a rack unit, it does require more knowledge from the user than a simple amp with knobs and a couple channels. Yes a wish list is one thing, but sifting through what will be really useful is the work that you don't seem to understand guys.

Get busy playing, or get busy wishing.

Over 200 amp models and some people wish they had so many more (to keep playing through the same 2, 3 presets)