Matrix GT1000FX - Mesa Fifty/Fifty A/B



OK - this time it's a bit better organised I hope. The Mesa was whacked up to 8 and overall speaker volume controlled by the Axe. I used an output of around 100 db according to a db meter app on my iPhone. Usual EVM-12L Classic speaker

First Segment: 5.07 Factory American Clean - Cab bypassed Power Amp Sim on - Mesa 50/50

Second Segment: Same preset no tweaks - Matrix GT1000FX

Third Segment: Same preset - but sag increased and minor tweaks here and there to warm it up slightly - Matrix GT1000FX
 


By special request for Thomas-Hawk ..... Matrix power amp sim on, Mesa Power amp sim off

Factory CAE Lead preset - all FX and cab block off

A bit farty in the bass end and tamer at the top once I bypassed the cab block but couldn't be arsed fixing it.

Mic does not do justice to the in your face sound - but I can safely say that the Axe2 is a good partner for both these amps. The Mesa can be run with power amp sim on or off - though if you turn it off then it would probably mean you'd need to mic your cab.

The EVM12-L plays a fair part in the equation here too. These speakers have only had a few hours worth of playing from new - so there's a bit more range to come from them yet - but they are smooth operators.

Mesa part a little louder recorded - unintentional.
 
maxdown said:


By special request for Thomas-Hawk ..... Matrix power amp sim on, Mesa Power amp sim off

Factory CAE Lead preset - all FX and cab block off

A bit farty in the bass end and tamer at the top once I bypassed the cab block but couldn't be arsed fixing it.

Mic does not do justice to the in your face sound - but I can safely say that the Axe2 is a good partner for both these amps. The Mesa can be run with power amp sim on or off - though if you turn it off then it would probably mean you'd need to mic your cab.

The EVM12-L plays a fair part in the equation here too. These speakers have only had a few hours worth of playing from new - so there's a bit more range to come from them yet - but they are smooth operators.

Mesa part a little louder recorded - unintentional.
Click to expand...


Thanks! Aside from the flubby bass coming from the Mesa, I think the amps sound a lot closer. Now, for the ultimate test: do another comparison recording, Matrix with PA modeling on, Mesa with PA modeling off, but with a Mesa based preset, such as a Recto or Mark IV. I dont know much about the Mesa 50/50, but is it supposed to be similar to the power sections of a Recto and/or Mark IV?

Your efforts are very appreciated!
 
Yea, this is awesome to hear these tested. Even with power amp sims off, the Mesa still had the big high Q type of bass.
 
I believe 50/50 power amp is supposed to be similar to the IIC and the III power amps. the IV came out quite a bit later.
That boomy bass is what I could not dial out of my 50/50 without using a high pass filter.
 
maxdown said:


OK - this time it's a bit better organised I hope. The Mesa was whacked up to 8 and overall speaker volume controlled by the Axe. I used an output of around 100 db according to a db meter app on my iPhone. Usual EVM-12L Classic speaker

First Segment: 5.07 Factory American Clean - Cab bypassed Power Amp Sim on - Mesa 50/50

Second Segment: Same preset no tweaks - Matrix GT1000FX

Third Segment: Same preset - but sag increased and minor tweaks here and there to warm it up slightly - Matrix GT1000FX
Click to expand...


On this, I hear the Mesa with more gain. Its a touch brighter as well but its the gain I hear. Im guessing its the Mesa pre tubes adding it? its a little more crunchy. Could be the power n of course. the gain on the Matrix patch could be pushes a little to compensate (or lowered on the Mesa patch?) which is something I had to do a lot when comparing the GT800 to my old VHT 2:50:2.

Its a lot of work to match two amps (though I did get very close in the end) and probably not worth it. Ultimately you have to accept that all power amps are different, and you either choose the one you prefer or learn to tweek to the one you have. Whats important is that the amp (or amps) are good in their own right - some arnt. As long as the clarity, dynamics and push/cut are there its all good.
 
OK, I have to say those are MUCH closer. the 1st and 3rd sections are so similar ... the Mesa has a little more "crunch" in the first section than tthe Matrix, but in the third section the sim gives that "crunch" and they are very close ... a lot closer than the first couple of tests ... impressed.
 
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As I have already said - this is not a scientifically controlled experiment and the input sensitivity is a lot different between the 2 amps so level matching is tricky just using the waveform view in a DAW and I didn't want to use any gating/expanding - just wanted to capture the raw sound.

As for whether or not to use PA sim it's down to user choice - I've also played around with leaving cab sims on to see what it sounds like through the EVM12s - it's complete 'optionville' if you're prepared to maybe stray away from trying to closely match the real world equivalent of the modelled amp type.

The more pro audio type of listener will laugh at my approach I'm sure .... but I'm just a schmuck who has 2 amps and got curious ... take it or leave it ... there's no agenda on my part to make one sound better than the other here.
 
Your efforts are much appreciated, I enjoyed listening to them a lot, and it does begin to show how with the correct amp sims in use (or not, as appropriate) you can get VERY close ... I think if you gave someone a listen to both amps, and then have them a half hour break and said "OK, I'm going to play one of the amps now, you tell me which it is" ... I think without going back and comparing, you would be hard put to tell which was which once you had the sims tweaked. they got a lot closer in the end than I ever thought they would when it started out ..

I don't think either of them is "better" .. they are what they are .. both seem to do what do what they were designed to do just fine.
 
I'll maybe get time to do one last blast at a MkIV and Recto selection just to see what the 50/50 thinks of it's cousins from the future ......
 
This thread makes me want to do a dual setup with the power amp ins on my Traynor YCS-50 and Randall RG-80 and drive my open back Eminence 1258 212 and closed back Celestion V30 cabs, respectively. Completely impractical for a live setting but I bet it would be bRUtiful.

While the Mesa is more pleasing to my ears on most of the samples, that bass could become a bit much for some things. I like the slight fizz on the top and the bouncy character of the Mesa, too.

The Matrix doesn't blow me away like I thought it would, honestly. Not that it's bad but it doesn't spark anything in my, er, ears.

Thanks for the comparison.
 
To be honest I haven't really sat down and worked at a good tweak for the Matrix yet .... it will come alive yet I'm sure.
 
The most important: How is the difference in the room, your face and under your fingers?

It´s cool to hear recordings, but it´s never the same as how it feels or gives inspiration to the player. I allway goes for what sounds and feels best. No matter if it´s "desireble" from an studio point of veiw.. I play 95% live, so that the important thing for me. It´s my instrument you know :D
 
You hit it on the head there .... I've been saying previously that when you're in the room with even just 1 12 connected in that cab at ~100db it's a different experience. I don't have the equipment to capture that and it's frustrating .....

The Mesa is a valve poweramp and behaves so - no big surprises there!

The Matrix holds it's own against it - it fills the room and there's no damping of natural or pinched harmonics, it does controlled feedback - but without the tube colouring - so your only concern will be what comes at the end of the chain - the speaker cab. If you want to use a FOH feed from Output 1 and a backline cab too from Output 2 you will likely have more problems getting a close match between the two when using the Mesa.

No matter which amp is used you still got to dial the Axe to suit it - same can be said for active Studio Monitors.

I was only able to turn the Mesa up to 8 on its volumes without getting too much noise (sacrificing a bit of headroom) - the Matrix goes all the way up and stays quiet.

Playing a tube amp regularly can fool you because you don't maybe notice the tubes' degradation over time - so you end up having to change the glassware every 6/9 months for peace of mind. No such expense with the Matrix.

With a tube amp you should be running it pretty hot to get the best from it's output tubes - the Matrix stays a lot more constant at lower and higher volumes (depends on speakers used too of course).

The weight difference and robustness for travel is all in the Matrix's favour.

I'm keeping the Matrix and it will be the first choice amp with my Axe rig (FRFR hopefully someday)

I might hold onto the Mesa too for 2 reasons:

1. I might build a separate pure tube rig by getting a tube preamp just to be a tube snob from time to time

2. The used prices for the 50/50 are scandalously low in my opinion - it may be old but it's still a great amp and built well. If I'm going to have to take a low price when selling it then I'd prefer to hang on to it as getting a more modern type would cost more and I doubt the gains would merit it.
 
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