Marshall JVM410HJS - real amp versus Axe3

Check Kyle bull video.. Maybe will be not the tighter amp ever ( remember in fact it s a "solo amp") but it s not so loose in the low end..
 
@Orvillain is this taking into account that the old post about the equivalent setting in the axe not matching exactly to physical knobs on an amp because of the range of the fractal knobs?
 
So, probably not what the OP was about, but with the Axe Fx, you would never just have the amp like that. Add all the various EQs (GEQ, PEQ, Filter) and play around with the tone controls in the amp block. I'm sure you can get the Axe to sound every bit as good as the original if you do that.

Not a huge fan of that sound/amp, but I do agree from the recordings, the Axe Fx one does not sound good. But that's why we have so many other tools in the Axe Fx for tone sculpting! IMO, every amp needs the tone sculpting to sound the way you want it to sound (emphasis on you).
 
To my ears, 10 seconds of EQing the FAS version should get you to 99% of the way there. I wouldn’t guess these were different amps, just different EQ settings on the same amp. I found the same when I compared the real JP2C to the model. After EQing, I couldn’t tell the difference anymore but the settings were not the same.
 
The model is based on Joe's personal amp. He sent it to me. When I entered the values from the schematic it didn't match. The tapers of the controls were different and there were some other differences. I can only assume that his personal amp is different than production models. This is often the case as production models are designed to be inexpensive to build (i.e., using control tapers that are used in other models to reduce inventory, etc.).

Another possibility is there were changes made during production. It is not uncommon for amps to have changes made to the circuitry over the production run. For example, the Blues Jr. has had numerous revisions. The first ones sound nothing like the later models. This is sometimes done due to perceived customer reaction ("The amp is too dark" or "The amp is too harsh").

Simply adjusting BMT should get you what you want. Control tapers make a big difference. For example, a Bass pot that is a linear taper would need to be set to 1.0 to match a Log10A taper at 5.0.
 
FractalAudio said:
The model is based on Joe's personal amp. He sent it to me. When I entered the values from the schematic it didn't match. The tapers of the controls were different and there were some other differences. I can only assume that his personal amp is different than production models. This is often the case as production models are designed to be inexpensive to build (i.e., using control tapers that are used in other models to reduce inventory, etc.).

Another possibility is there were changes made during production. It is not uncommon for amps to have changes made to the circuitry over the production run. For example, the Blues Jr. has had numerous revisions. The first ones sound nothing like the later models. This is sometimes done due to perceived customer reaction ("The amp is too dark" or "The amp is too harsh").

Simply adjusting BMT should get you what you want. Control tapers make a big difference. For example, a Bass pot that is a linear taper would need to be set to 1.0 to match a Log10A taper at 5.0.
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Thanks for responding Cliff. I don't doubt what you say, the only thing is there isn't much room left on the BMT to go, and even if I crank treble and high treble up to full, I still can't get the same brightness, bite, sizzle, as from my real amp. I'm sure there are differences between Joe's personal one and my production one for sure, but is there anything I can do to diagnose this further? Anything you could suggest?

Cheers Cliff!
 
Orvillain said:
I don't doubt what you say, the only thing is there isn't much room left on the BMT to go, and even if I crank treble and high treble up to full, I still can't get the same brightness, bite, sizzle, as from my real amp.
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Use the Input EQ section of the AMP block to extend the range of the controls.

In this case, I'd recommend trying the Tilt mode of the Input EQ.
 
Orvillain said:
Thanks for responding Cliff. I don't doubt what you say, the only thing is there isn't much room left on the BMT to go, and even if I crank treble and high treble up to full, I still can't get the same brightness, bite, sizzle, as from my real amp. I'm sure there are differences between Joe's personal one and my production one for sure, but is there anything I can do to diagnose this further? Anything you could suggest?

Cheers Cliff!
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Not Cliff, obv, and you probably know all this, but where are your channel gain and bright cap values set? Unless channel gain is quite high, the bright cap makes a lot of difference. Maybe try cranking it up if you want more sizzle.
 
iaresee said:
Use the Input EQ section of the AMP block to extend the range of the controls.

In this case, I'd recommend trying the Tilt mode of the Input EQ.
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That's not quite the same thing though right? Coz the input EQ is before the preamp circuit, and the BMT is post gain stages but pre phase inverter, if I understand correctly??

I'll give it a go mind you.
 
Orvillain said:
Thanks for responding Cliff. I don't doubt what you say, the only thing is there isn't much room left on the BMT to go, and even if I crank treble and high treble up to full, I still can't get the same brightness, bite, sizzle, as from my real amp. I'm sure there are differences between Joe's personal one and my production one for sure, but is there anything I can do to diagnose this further? Anything you could suggest?

Cheers Cliff!
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I‘m not a big fan of the JVM but in that case I think it’s way cooler to have Joe‘s personal amp rather than a production model.
 
Orvillain said:
I'm comparing them back and forth, and the Axe version is both fuzzier, seems to have more emphasis on the pick-attack (but in the low frequency region) and isn't as bright as the real amp is, at reasonably stock settings.
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The problem is the pots and their values. The knobs might be pointing the same ways but are the values matching? Also, have they made revisions to the circuits since the model was made?

Cliff also talks about this in 'No Two Amps Sound the Same - Fact or Fallacy'
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/no-two-amps-sound-the-same-fact-or-fallacy.109537/

and

https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/...ur_amp_doesn.27t_sound_like_Fractal_Audio.27s
 
IMO, if the model we have is based on Joe's specific amp, then as cool as that is, I also think its not representative of what most people associate with that amp. I also think that particular amp sounds like ass compared to the production model (which is fine, having an accurate model to the production amps isnt THAT important to me).

As is, I'd just rather use one of the other Marshall's that sound good off the bat to me. I could fiddle round with pre and post EQ and tinker with deeper settings, but at that point its not really a JVM410HJS any more, its something unique and different. If its possible to adjust something that makes it sound like a normal JVM410HJS AND retain all the amp's behaviors across different settings, then I'd be interested. If Im just guessing, and having to adjust various things with every setting change..... not as cool.

I love tinkering with the amps, its probably my favourite thing to do in Fractal, but I prefer to do it as a creative thing rather than trying to "fix" something.

I don't think the issue with this model is about "No two amps sound the same", its more about Joe's specific unit not being like production models, in a significant and noticeable way. Quite curious what the difference in tone is caused from, the top end is completely different.
 
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