*LIVE * Tone Matching a sound from another Modeller via SPDIF ..... is this possible ?

[ben ifin]

Hey all.

Just a few very quick TMA questions.

a => is it possible to Live Tone Match a sound from another modellers SPDIF-OUT to the SPDIF-IN of the Axe 2 and thereby avoid extra stages of AD/DA conversion ?

b => if yes, can I use just regular RCA cables -or- do I need "special" / "expensive" SPDIF cables ?

c => when I Live Tone Match [via Analog] I do the "gain stage correcting" / "gain stage matching" of my Analog Tone Matches however the low-end / low-freq gain of the Tone Matched sound just is'nt right ..... its flubby, lacks tight bottom end and low-end-gain .... is this a "known issue" or is there something further / setting I need to do / change ?

Thanks,
Ben

 

[FractalAudio]

Not currently.

Tone matching only matches the output EQ. If you are getting too much loose bass that means the input EQ needs less bass. I'm assuming you're trying to match a Kemper. If you tell me the profile I can have a go at it. Be aware though that matching modelers is harder than matching real amps, especially in the case of the Kemper because the Kemper doesn't set bias points and it's compressor doesn't behave the way a real amp does. If the model you are using has a non-zero Preamp Comp value try setting the Comp Type to Ideal. This uses a similar compressor to the KPA. Also note that you should reduce the "Clarity" on the KPA to zero before matching as this is a non-physical parameter.

Another thing that makes matching a KPA particularly difficult is you have no idea where things were set on the original amp or if there were any pedals or other outboard gear in the signal chain. For example, I tried Tone Matching some of those Top Jimi profiles and couldn't even get close. Did some measurements and, sure enough, there's a huge treble boost in all the profiles. I think they had a parametric EQ going into the amp or a treble booster or something. As soon as I boosted the treble then things sounded the same.

Anyways without knowing where the tone controls were set, whether a bright switch was on or off, where the master volume was set, etc., etc., etc. it can be a lot of trial and error to get a match. With a real amp you just set the model's controls to the same position and that's usually enough to get a good match.

 

[ben ifin]

Not currently.

Tone matching only matches the output EQ. If you are getting too much loose bass that means the input EQ needs less bass. I'm assuming you're trying to match a Kemper. If you tell me the profile I can have a go at it. Be aware though that matching modelers is harder than matching real amps, especially in the case of the Kemper because the Kemper doesn't set bias points and it's compressor doesn't behave the way a real amp does. If the model you are using has a non-zero Preamp Comp value try setting the Comp Type to Ideal. This uses a similar compressor to the KPA. Also note that you should reduce the "Clarity" on the KPA to zero before matching as this is a non-physical parameter.

Another thing that makes matching a KPA particularly difficult is you have no idea where things were set on the original amp or if there were any pedals or other outboard gear in the signal chain. For example, I tried Tone Matching some of those Top Jimi profiles and couldn't even get close. Did some measurements and, sure enough, there's a huge treble boost in all the profiles. I think they had a parametric EQ going into the amp or a treble booster or something. As soon as I boosted the treble then things sounded the same.

Anyways without knowing where the tone controls were set, whether a bright switch was on or off, where the master volume was set, etc., etc., etc. it can be a lot of trial and error to get a match. With a real amp you just set the model's controls to the same position and that's usually enough to get a good match.

Hey. HUGE thanks for the info

The main TMA's I am trying are 5 or 6 of my key KPA MBritt profiles - as they are commercial profiles I cant send a copy but I have tried the things you suggested above and it *did* help and gets me about %80 there .... but after that its just to much trial and error as you say ..... too hit and miss to justify the time and ear-fatigue

I wonder then - another question please.

=> what about if I recorded my MBritt profiles and then tried to do it that way - with Sonar I can easily record a few passages of each of my 5 or 6 profiles - I would record them dry with no Rev, Mods, Comps, Delays etc...... just raw profile sound ...... if I then do the matching with my own high quality isolated guitar tracks recorded this way, do you think this would work better -or- is Live Tone matching *the* best way to do it ?

Also, a more general question:-

=> when I have profiled a few of my Amps with the KPA, it is suggested to first pull up a similar profile for listening purposes ..... this however is purely for convenince as when profiling with the KPA, the "listening" profile has no impact on the profile you are making ..... in fact I - and many commercial profile makers - skip this step and use a fully-blank profile with all settings set to 0 when they start their profiling sessions ....... so long way of asking ...... with the Axe TMA, does the selection of the Amp Block for the TMA impact on the final TMA tone -or- is there such a thing as an empty / blank Amp block that can be used instead - hope this makes sense ?

Thanks again.
Ben

 

[barhrecords]

IIRC MBritt starts with the amp tone stack at noon. He has a write up on his site about his profiling approach.

His cab is a 2x12.

He uses a conventional guitar amp as the power amp.

"My entire rig now consists of: a Line 6 wireless -> Kemper KPA (main out to foh and monitors), -> monitor output to power amp in of either a Fender/EVH 5150III or my 3rd Power British Dream (Dream Weaver prototype), into a 3rd Power Switchback 212 cabinet (loaded with Celestion Classic Lead 80 and Celestion Creamback. I set up the Kemper so that the master volume knob on the front is only controlling the monitor out send, which lets me adjust my stage volume without affecting the foh or monitor mix. "

 

[FractalAudio]

Live mode is always preferable to Off-Line.

I own some MBritt profiles. Let me know which ones you are trying to Tone Match.

 

[fremen]

I did a few M Britt tonematches too, got it at around 95 % close. The feel is a little more different than that, depends on the model

 

[ben ifin]

Live mode is always preferable to Off-Line. I own some MBritt profiles. Let me know which ones you are trying to Tone Match.

I did a few M Britt tonematches too, got it at around 95 % close. The feel is a little more different than that, depends on the model

Hey Fractal and fremen. Thanks.

The MBritt Profiles that I own that I am trying to TMA are from 5 amps he has profiled ..... the actual specific original profile file names are in blue below:-

=> Profile Pack 1

-13 ERT33 CLN 2-3- - 2015-02-15 20-10-26.kipr

Trainwreck 3- - 2015-02-15 20-21-23.kipr

=> Profile Pack 3

Cal Texan 2 5 - 2015-02-17 20-23-13.kipr

Cal Texan BLUZ - 2015-02-16 19-40-40.kipr


=> Modern Profile Pack

Dirty Laverne Hi 2 - 2015-05-17 10-50-24.kipr

Dirty Laverne Hi 3 - 2015-05-17 10-50-32.kipr

Fuchsia Taco 3 - 2015-05-17 10-57-22.kipr

Fuchsia Taco 4 - 2015-05-17 10-57-31.kipr

When I was trying to Live TMA them, on the KPA I made sure to:-

-> Turned OFF all 8 stomps slots both PRE and POST
-> set Pure Cab to 0
-> set Space to 0
-> all other Profile specifc settings were left %100 stock / unchanged

Any advice, tips, tricks [ ] you could please try and let me/us know about would be FANTASTIC.

Thanks again for your info and kind offer.
Ben

 

[FractalAudio]

Hey Fractal and fremen. Thanks.

The MBritt Profiles that I own that I am trying to TMA are from 5 amps he has profiled ..... the actual specific original profile file names are in blue below:-

=> Profile Pack 1

-13 ERT33 CLN 2-3- - 2015-02-15 20-10-26.kipr

Trainwreck 3- - 2015-02-15 20-21-23.kipr

=> Profile Pack 3

Cal Texan 2 5 - 2015-02-17 20-23-13.kipr

Cal Texan BLUZ - 2015-02-16 19-40-40.kipr


=> Modern Profile Pack

Dirty Laverne Hi 2 - 2015-05-17 10-50-24.kipr

Dirty Laverne Hi 3 - 2015-05-17 10-50-32.kipr

Fuchsia Taco 3 - 2015-05-17 10-57-22.kipr

Fuchsia Taco 4 - 2015-05-17 10-57-31.kipr

When I was trying to Live TMA them, on the KPA I made sure to:-

-> Turned OFF all 8 stomps slots both PRE and POST
-> set Pure Cab to 0
-> set Space to 0
-> all other Profile specifc settings were left %100 stock / unchanged

Any advice, tips, tricks [ ] you could please try and let me/us know about would be FANTASTIC.

Thanks again for your info and kind offer.
Ben

Sorry, I don't own any of these. Perhaps fittingly the only pack of his I own is Pack 2.

 

[ben ifin]

Sorry, I don't own any of these. Perhaps fittingly the only pack of his I own is Pack 2.

No worries at all

I actually own all of Michaels packs.

I do use 5 of Michaels profiles from Profile Pack 2 in some preset banks that dont get used quite as much as my " go to's " above. For what its worth, their specific original Profile Pack 2 profile file names are:-

Morgan AC40TB + - 2014-11-09 16-57-40.kipr
Morgan AC40TB +Brt 2 - 2014-11-09 16-59-35.kipr
Morgan AC40TB 2 - 2014-11-09 16-53-08.kipr
79 Marshall JMP 2 - 2014-11-10 10-56-07.kipr
79 Marshall JMP 3 - 2014-10-26 10-55-51.kipr

As above, I did also try to TMA these, but same issue

I do realize I am doubtlessly pushing my luck here, and I know you guys / gals are all flat out ...... but if by chance you do have some spare [ ] time to try and TMA these from your end, it would be great to hear back how you go, and any tips, advice etc..... also, if it helps, and if you are looking for a fresh set of ears who is used to using these KPA profiles, I'd be happy to try/test them at my end in to my CLR and real 2x12 cab so I could direclty compare original-to-TMA them at " gig " levels with the exact same set up.

Many thanks again,
Ben