Les Paul. Which one??

joel said:
why a les paul..
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Fair question, cause I think there are definitely s-loads of other guitars out there that would be more versatile. I guess I've always wanted one. I have owned a few Epi LPs over the years but they are of noticeably lower quality than the Gibsons. I just am at a point where I can afford it and would like one in my collection.
 
Cam anyone speak to the weight relived, chambered, swiss cheese, debate? I am guessing it is total bullshit but would love to hear people's thoughts. In theory I hate the idea of Gibson routing out the guitars so much but it probably doesn't make a lick of difference in the tone, just the weight. I've heard they are doing this because the Mahogany they are using now is much denser and heavy so they need to do it in order to keep them around 9-13 lbs.
 
Tonemeister said:
Cam anyone speak to the weight relived, chambered, swiss cheese, debate? I am guessing it is total bullshit but would love to hear people's thoughts. In theory I hate the idea of Gibson routing out the guitars so much but it probably doesn't make a lick of difference in the tone, just the weight. I've heard they are doing this because the Mahogany they are using now is much denser and heavy so they need to do it in order to keep them around 9-13 lbs.
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I'll do my best in as short order as possible.

Back in the day, when quality woods were chosen for their "inherent qualities", a number of things occurred upon finishing the product:
- guitar was solid, but not overly heavy
- guitar was highly resonant
- guitar offered beautiful sustain
- guitar offered rich tone

Les Pauls continued down the production highway, often cutting corners, often having consistency issues. But they had to remain with their defacto mahogany body with maple top (only deviated from on their '57 Custom, notably called "Black Beauty", which was mahogany on mahogany). Mahogany grew more expensive, and the more quality woods - read: resonant, lighter, etc - became more expensive. In order to keep the Les Pauls in production with a consistent sticker price, they used heavier mahogany bodies and started drilling holes in the slab for weight relief. These are called "weight relieved" Les Pauls, and they typically have 9 holes bored out of the mahogany body. Some claim better weight, I claim shittier wood retroactively drilled to better the end result. Then some wise guys came up with the notion of "chambering" the body (large routed cavities within the mahogany slab sealed off with the maple top). Same thing to me - still not addressing the "quality wood" issue but rather going on about the tonal harmonic and resonant qualities that of a "chambered" Les Paul. Sure, they hum a bit better than many others, but don't come close to the tone or sustain of a "good quality" solidbody slab Lester. Cloud 9 is just an abomination - sorry to anyone who owns one.

The "purists" I spoke of earlier... I am one. I love my Lesters to be 100% slab, good quality mahogany and damn straight I can tell the difference between good wood and shittier grades. Stick with the RIs or the Customs. Know your production runs. And if you have any specific questions, ask away. I've got a few peeps on the inside of Gibson HQ I always run my SNs past before buying.

I hope this helps,
Mo
 
^^ Customs are Swiss Cheesed also. It's pretty much only the Historic series that aren't.

Edit: New Customs are also shipping with Richlite fretboards.
 
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Not wishing to muddy the waters, but you might try a used PRS McCarty Trem, or regular McCarty. (Will be $2000 or less).
I have had an LP Deluxe and Studio. The Deluxe was nice.

PRS build quality is very consistent. Love my McTrem and it can do pretty much any LP sound and more IMO.
 
Ventura, do you have experience with those Heritage Les Pauls? Do you have any opinion about the wood, and construction quality? Better or equal to todays Gibsons? Thanks for any insight.
 
I never liked LP's for some reason, then I was bored one day and walked into a room with 30 of them, new and used, some modified, etc.

Each one played very differently. Some were set up poorly. A couple where uncomfortably heavy. Some had wavey necks or dodgy tuners. I didn't know anything about the general thoughts around Gibson's build quality through the years, I just played them all and tried to find the one that, to me, was comfortable and sounded the most musical. For science, you could say.

Imagine my surprise when I walked out of there with a heavily worn '78 Goldtop with new jumbo frets and Burstbuckers and a dead straight neck. It was the lightest and the pickups were some of the lowest output in the room. It's incredibly versatile, honky but warm and that thin sounding un-potted bridge pickup does the snarl thing incredibly well. And the playing wear on the back of the neck makes it a delight to play. To me it sounds like 70's rock. Paired with the Atomica Low it's outstanding. But it's one of those "all things to all men" guitars. Except metal men...

I don't really buy in to the whole "you have to get this era guitar with wood that was cut this way". I have an early 80's SG that as a piece of wood is a bit dull and almost has no frets but it's so much fun to play because it has that 60's rock thing with open chords and pentatonic scales where you take it by the scruff and try to fight against the fact that it doesn't have much sustain. It's crapness is really endearing.

They all sound so different I think it really is the old thing of playing as many as you can, preferably comparing many in the same room with the same amplifier (or Axe), and choosing the one that works best for you.
 
Drama said:
^^ Customs are Swiss Cheesed also. It's pretty much only the Historic series that aren't.

Edit: New Customs are also shipping with Richlite fretboards.
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Indeed many are, hence the reason I run every SN past my guys at HQ.

I mentioned richlite in one of my first posts. Not into it whatsoever. My take on it is score some of the nicest limited run Lesters today, play them, love them, and take care of them, and they'll definitely be worth something down the road when guitars aren't made of wood anymore.
 
baloo said:
I don't really buy in to the whole "you have to get this era guitar with wood that was cut this way".
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This.

I've been playing and collecting Les Paul's for 20 odd years, I'm also a Gibson dealer. Out of my whole collection my favourites are a 2011 Chambered Custom Shop Axcess and a 2010 Custom Shop Class 5.
 
Lkdog said:
Not wishing to muddy the waters, but you might try a used PRS McCarty Trem, or regular McCarty. (Will be $2000 or less).
I have had an LP Deluxe and Studio. The Deluxe was nice.

PRS build quality is very consistent. Love my McTrem and it can do pretty much any LP sound and more IMO.
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Agreed. They've got very consistent QC and are world renowned for their quality. They're not a Les Paul, but they are extremely good. I've only recently started to educate myself with PRS. Thus far I really like what I see.


iggypop said:
Ventura, do you have experience with those Heritage Les Pauls? Do you have any opinion about the wood, and construction quality? Better or equal to todays Gibsons? Thanks for any insight.
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Not as much as I'd like. I do have several acquaintances and friends who've owned Heritage. It's been up there with quality. A few build idiosyncrasies therefore making them "not" Les Pauls, but overall, these guys seem happy with their guitars. I know 2 custom builders out there too, who'll recreate any Les Paul from any era right down to the very machines used and toolings employed at the time of the era in question. They're not cheap, $10K a piece, but collectors and wizened players abroad have said they're the closest thing one will ever get to holding an esteemed '59 Burst, or '57 Custom.

baloo said:
I never liked LP's for some reason...

Imagine my surprise when I walked out of there with a heavily worn '78 Goldtop with new jumbo frets and Burstbuckers and a dead straight neck.
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Magic happens to the least suspecting of us all. Honestly, their design is so "yesterday" for ergonomics and comfort; fat neck joint limiting the reach of the upper frets; heavy on the back.... But with all these historical artifacts remaining, when you get a good one - it's unbelievable.

Feel free to hit me up with any ???s regarding Lesters. It's a pleasure to speak about them. I've held and played many - some of them looked like they oughta play like the gods, but instead sounded weak, shallow and thin. Then some beaters with fret work needed, a repaired snapped headstock, and rusted bobbins sings like the gospel. They're a finicky bunch - but I've really grown to love 'em.

Cheers,
Mo
 
Drama said:
This.

I've been playing and collecting Les Paul's for 20 odd years, I'm also a Gibson dealer. Out of my whole collection my favourites are a 2011 Chambered Custom Shop Axcess and a 2010 Custom Shop Class 5.
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Ok so those are both Custom Shop guitars. The Axcess line is chambered but what about the CS class 5? Why do you like the Axcess? It is supposedly quite a bit thinner and has the ergonomic contour. I would imagine "purists" hate them.
 
Tonemeister said:
Ok so those are both Custom Shop guitars. The Axcess line is chambered but what about the CS class 5? Why do you like the Axcess? It is supposedly quite a bit thinner and has the ergonomic contour. I would imagine "purists" hate them.
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Yeah, both Custom Shop. The Axcess is thinner indeed and has the contoured heel and body scarf. It just plays like a dream and has an amazing tone. The Class 5 is Swiss Cheesed but rather than the 9 large holes it has 15 smaller ones.

For me, I couldn't really care less about chambering/weight relief. If it plays good and sounds good, it is good.

In saying that, I don't much like all the new fingerboards they're using at the moment.
 
Baked Maple: Cosmetic, it doesn't look good.

Obeche: Shrinks, enjoy the sharp fret ends!

Richlite: Crap scraped together and pressed to look like ebony.

Granadillo: Probably the least objectionable from my perspective, still not cosmetically great.

Rosewood!?!: No longer a solid piece, going forward they'll be two pieces pressed together. Which doesn't really make a huge difference, it's just not widely known.

My real issue with them though is how they feel. They feel dry and just... wrong to me. Apart from Obeche, that's just crap full stop. If I came by a real player that felt right using the above boards, I wouldn't hesitate to pick it up. Just hasn't happened yet.
 
Drama said:
Baked Maple: Cosmetic, it doesn't look good.

Obeche: Shrinks, enjoy the sharp fret ends!

Richlite: Crap scraped together and pressed to look like ebony.

Granadillo: Probably the least objectionable from my perspective, still not cosmetically great.

Rosewood!?!: No longer a solid piece, going forward they'll be two pieces pressed together. Which doesn't really make a huge difference, it's just not widely known.

My real issue with them though is how they feel. They feel dry and just... wrong to me. Apart from Obeche, that's just crap full stop. If I came by a real player that felt right using the above boards, I wouldn't hesitate to pick it up. Just hasn't happened yet.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.....!!!

Hence my mentioning to stick with a few earlier models that saw good production runs. You know, get a killer 2007 or a sweetass 1995 R9 or a 2010 Goldtop R7. The used market is teeming with deals for exceptionally good Lesters.

Good luck,
Mo
 
Tonemeister said:
I love the Silverburst but I am an Adam Jones of Tool fan and I would feel like a "tool" if I got one since that is his signature sound/look. Probably overthinking it.
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Your not. I've wanted one of those forever and simply wont get one because its Adam Jones' guitar. They should find every one of the silver bursts ever made and just send them to him and get it over with. Best band. Period.
 
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