Just can't get FRFR vs amp/cab to work for me?

frfr never turned back from day one. I want all I can get from this box, and playing through one cab with one sound isnt going to give me the 10000 options I love (and waste time on) that one cab cant give.

What I dont understand is what a cab gives anyone but the person in front of it. If anyone should want that its me the bedroom player, however I want options and sound variety. No one, hears a cab sound direct; its not on records, clubs, pa systems computers, its just a sound for one person or a small band or TINY club that may hear that 'sound'. But no one is wrong , everyone gets to choose their fav.
 
Like Cliff said, try De-Phase. It can even rescue a headphone session.

If you still prefer cabs, then go with cabs. But don't buy into the "moving air" myth. Speakers make sound by moving air. If the volume is the same, the amount of air being moved is the same.
 
Rex said:
Like Cliff said, try De-Phase. It can even rescue a headphone session.
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Thanks Rex. I'd already brought my FRFR monitors home just before 20 beta came out. I do like what how De-Phase sounds in the studio through the studio monitors. I will give it a try with my FRFR's live with the band.
 
trancegodz said:
Thanks Rex. I'd already brought my FRFR monitors home just before 20 beta came out. I do like what how De-Phase sounds in the studio through the studio monitors. I will give it a try with my FRFR's live with the band.
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Let us know how it works out for you.
 
For me, it wasn't the whole "moving air" thing that turned me away from FRFR. It was more that it just didn't sound right at all. The guitar tone sounded really harsh, fizzy and unnatural, almost like playing through a cheap distortion pedal listening to it via cheap headphones. I tried the CLR and a Xitone passive 2x12(awesome product BTW, just didn't work out for me) and both sounded similar to me tonewise with the Xitone coming out on top. I gave up and went with a SS power amp and continue using my 4x12 cab. Interestingly enough (and I haven't been able to figure this one out yet), I recently bought some studio monitor speakers and DAW software to start messing around with recording. When I play live out of the monitors, it's that same harsh sound but when I RECORD with the DAW and playback the recorded audio out of the same monitors, it sounds GREAT and a very real sounding guitar tone. I have no idea why this is or what is causing it, maybe it just sounds different to my ears since I'm not actually playing and can fully pay attention to the sound? I have no idea but as long as the recorded tone sounds great, I won't stress about it any longer!
 
That's strange that you can record and playback it sounds one way, but while you are playing, it sounds bad. Makes no sense.
 
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To get FRFR, or playing through recording monitors, to more closely feel like a real cab, I find turning up the volume helps.
 
I have the same problem. I have purchased 4 different cab packs and I can't find anything I like. When I play through my mesa 4x12 it has balls and girth but no matter which cab IR I use it just doesn't have that massive sound through my PA.

What do you mean by de phase?
 
I think most of us that incorporated FRFR into our live rigs have struggled with the change. I use both a live guitar cab and CLR for live...I like the sound of both. What's made me really enjoy what I hear from the FRFR is rolling off highs and lows in the cab block (low cut 95-120 and high cut 7K to 10K depending on the amp/IR) and using the delay parameter set to .04-.06. I do this on pretty much every live patch. It's 3 settings that are easy to do anywhere. The new De-phase seems promising too. All that being said, If you like the live cab, stick with it.
 
I also think the "moving air" reasoning is a myth.

Two CLR's in backline mode can easily compete with a Marshall 100w head into a single 4x12. It rattles the room. I would say it produces more usable low end than the Marshall half stack.
 
Add 500-700hz, and make sure your tone has some beef/body in the neighborhood of 200z (but not too much).

Half the time "thin" is simply because you created your tone in isolation where it sounds big and beautiful, even when cranked. At rehearsal/gig though, big and beautiful become thin and lost.

Also, make sure your bass player's volume is under control and that his midrange freq (around 300-700) isn't cranked too high otherwise he'll be stepping on your beef...
 
Try Axe direct to a big PA. There's no guitar rig that can compete with a multi thousand watt system. Very close to the Back to the future scene... :D

I now rehearse with both CLR and a 4x12 with Marshall tube power amp. But if I have to choose one, it's CLR, no contest! The Marshall is loud but I still can't hear it properly if I'm not in front of it, whereas the CLR fills the room much easier. The Marshall just ends up frying someone else's face. It's fun though! Add the convenience of CLR and the versatility of tones (small combo sound just doesn't happen with 4x12)...

Also, now I really like Ownhammer g12t75 IR's. Previously I didn't like them, but they are actually awesome!
 
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Rex said:
Like Cliff said, try De-Phase. It can even rescue a headphone session.

If you still prefer cabs, then go with cabs. But don't buy into the "moving air" myth. Speakers make sound by moving air. If the volume is the same, the amount of air being moved is the same.
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Well, to be a little more precise: if the volume is the same then the magnitude of the air motion is the same, however, the bulk motion cannot be the same due to the inclusion of horns/compression-drivers/blah-blah-blah. Four 12" drivers moving in (relatively speaking) unison creates a different effect than, let's say a 15" woofer and 1" driver with a 120deg x 60deg exponential horn. Alas, the well-flogged horse keeps twitching every time it is struck...
 
barhrecords said:
I also think the "moving air" reasoning is a myth.

Two CLR's in backline mode can easily compete with a Marshall 100w head into a single 4x12. It rattles the room. I would say it produces more usable low end than the Marshall half stack.
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Agreed about 2 CLR's in "backline" mode. I stack mine and run um like this. You are correct in "it can rattle the room"!:mrgreen
 
Pinkycramps said:
I don't like not knowing how my cab tone translates to FOH, and if I am really sounding good. With the AXE, I actually listen to my tones at practice through our PA mains (QSC 3 ways) and get a solid idea of what it's like.
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+1 You learn to use the FRFR feel eventually.
I have one side of our mains at home for preset editing and practice so I know how my sound will be heard by the audience. If you do a mains capture minus your part, you can really dial in your sound to fit with the band.
 
happycritter said:
Well, to be a little more precise: if the volume is the same then the magnitude of the air motion is the same, however, the bulk motion cannot be the same due to the inclusion of horns/compression-drivers/blah-blah-blah.
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Sorry, I'm not following you. What's "bulk motion?"


happycritter said:
Four 12" drivers moving in (relatively speaking) unison creates a different effect than, let's say a 15" woofer and 1" driver with a 120deg x 60deg exponential horn.
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True, different speakers will sound different at different angles.


happycritter said:
Alas, the well-flogged horse keeps twitching every time it is struck...
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Methinks the horse changed breeds somewhere during the discussion. :)
 
Rex said:
I think Fletcher-Munson may have something to do with it.
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I believe he was comparing the same tone in the same room, same volume. Just live playing sounded one way, played back seconds later it was another. That doesn't sound right at all. (I could be wrong about the time/place.)
 
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