Is there a plan to add global preset blocks to FM9 (turbo or otherwise)?

M

mThomasDutch

Member
This question is really aimed more at @Admin M@ or other fractal representatives in the know. I'm asking not when but if global blocks are planned or even possible for the FM series. I love my AXEIII and FM9 (and FM3 too) but for me the FM9 is the only practical solution for the types of live playing that I do.

I change guitars and amps frequently and not having global blocks is a point of pain I'm really hoping to see addressed in the FM9.

If yes, is this likely to come in a near future firmware update, or more likely years away?

Thanks to anyone who has a legit answer.
 
Just curious how you would utilize Global blocks to deal with guitar and amp changes?

Some things may be solved by other means...

Not that I would reject global blocks of offered :)
 
I have several presets that have the same amp and cab block setups, but with effect blocks that change dramatically for different songs. Changing an amp setting like treble or mids on one and it updates all of them is huge. This is one of the features I lean on heavily on my Af3T. I miss it very much on the Fm9T. Such is life
 
Getting harder to differentiate the floor modelers from the flagship rack unit. Gotta keep a few features separate to try to push ppl to buy the flagship rack unit.
 
bo13bo said:
Getting harder to differentiate the floor modelers from the flagship rack unit. Gotta keep a few features separate to try to push ppl to buy the flagship rack unit.
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Pretty cynical, don't you think? Especially for a company that gives free updates multiple times per year. I can understand wanting a feature and voicing a request. But making cutting comments is pretty offensive. Especially for those of us that have owned and used Fractal products for a long time.

I started using modelers in the mid 90s - a Line 6 Axsys 212. The single upgrade that Line 6 offered cost $99. I later owned a Vetta. They marketed the Vetta as upgradeable. I finally sold it because they didn't fix the bugs, let alone provide regular feature upgrades. I've seen Cliff fix bugs in a matter of hours - same day of release of an upgrade. We have a pretty sweet deal. And my guess is that Fractal's business model has changed Line 6's model as well. They don't charge for updates any more. And they now release meaningful feature updates on a regular basis. My guess is that Fractal's business model rubbed off on Line 6. And we all win.

Just offering a different perspective. Maybe you'll find a more congenial way to make requests rather than spitting on Fractal's shoes.
 
lscottk said:
Pretty cynical, don't you think? Especially for a company that gives free updates multiple times per year. I can understand wanting a feature and voicing a request. But making cutting comments is pretty offensive. Especially for those of us that have owned and used Fractal products for a long time.

I started using modelers in the mid 90s - a Line 6 Axsys 212. The single upgrade that Line 6 offered cost $99. I later owned a Vetta. They marketed the Vetta as upgradeable. I finally sold it because they didn't fix the bugs, let alone provide regular feature upgrades. I've seen Cliff fix bugs in a matter of hours - same day of release of an upgrade. We have a pretty sweet deal. And my guess is that Fractal's business model has changed Line 6's model as well. They don't charge for updates any more. And they now release meaningful feature updates on a regular basis. My guess is that Fractal's business model rubbed off on Line 6. And we all win.

Just offering a different perspective. Maybe you'll find a more congenial way to make requests rather than spitting on Fractal's shoes.
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Agreed, that did sound pretty cynical - maybe a small tone tweak would help that one to go down easier.

That said, I think there's good and bad to the free updates model. Yeah, the constant updates are nice, but the other side of the coin is that if a company isn't getting paid for the improvements it makes to its products then the only revenue coming in is from the sale of new products. So, a company like Fractal has much more incentive to keep making new hardware and selling it. Eventually the updates to the old hardware stop and you can either live with the last update forevermore or upgrade the hardware to continue getting the updates. So, in reality you do pay for the updates eventually, it is just delayed a while.

So, I'd be ok with paying something for a major update or optional feature set if it incentivized Fractal to embrace a model more like Kemper's, which doesn't seem to require recycling hardware every three to four years to keep the features coming.

I'd gladly pay one of those $99 upgrade fees right now to have global blocks and maybe another premium feature or two (maybe independent tempo settings for songs) added to my FM9. As responsive as Fractal is, it would always be easier to justify responding to customer requests when they're standing there saying "Take my money!".

As to the updates being more frequent than they used to be I think that is a result of the adoption of agile project management methodologies across the tech landscape.

FWIW, I understand that high end guitar modelling is a niche market and probably saturates pretty easily compared to automotive or other sectors. I want companies like Fractal to remain profitable so they can continue to provide excellent products, so I find paying the smaller occasional upgrade fee to keep Fractal interested in updating my existing hardware preferable to having to recycle my FM 9, 3, or Axe III in a couple of years to keep getting new features.
 
unix-guy said:
Just curious how you would utilize Global blocks to deal with guitar and amp changes?

Some things may be solved by other means...

Not that I would reject global blocks of offered :)
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Not trying to be smarty pants - I think global blocks exist to solve exactly the problem I described. If you were playing an analog amp and you changed from an LP to a strat you would probably just walk back to it and increase the gain or turn down the presence or whatever struck your fancy. Obviously trying to do that between songs or right before rehearsal in 4 different amp channels across 10 presets is gonna be a problem.

As the FM9 is the one that jumps out to me as the gigging man's essential Fractal product, it makes sense to me to have that feature onboard.
 
mThomasDutch said:
Yeah, the constant updates are nice, but the other side of the coin is that if a company isn't getting paid for the improvements it makes to its products then the only revenue coming in is from the sale of new products. So, a company like Fractal has much more incentive to keep making new hardware and selling it.
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Unless the company is very content with their corporate income and sales.

EVERYTHING I've heard FAS say, both in the forum and in outside interviews, leads me to think that's their attitude. The current generation of the hardware will eventually be replaced, but I haven't read anything saying that it's anytime soon, to the contrary, Cliff has said multiple times that there's a LOT of life left in the design and units.

American companies typically behave the way you suggest, and that leaves a bad taste in our mouths and causes distrust so encountering a company like Fractal results in suspicion, and it often takes years to remove those.

In 2020 @Admin M@ wrote an entry to one of the threads that everyone should read, but because of how forums work it's likely that few have seen it…

This morning I gained a new understanding of comments like the one above, and the bitter reactions that often follow from our forum members when such comments appear here.

Whether such comments are jokes or not, they are generally rooted in the same place: we're accustomed to lies from the companies we deal with. "B.S." is perhaps the biggest global industry. One manifestation of this problem is heard in the frequent complaint that "quality is hard to come by." We're sold stories that don't match the goods, and thorough disappointment is the norm. Our senses are kept on constant high alert against marketers, mendacity and moles. People are jaded for good reason.

Fractal Audio is different, but it would be irrational to imagine that anyone should just assume this. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of "five-star" type reviews of our products and customer service. In fact, we provide high quality goods at fair prices, support them with constant improvement and innovation, and back them up with customer service that actually cares. No conspiracies; no cover ups; and hey, we might even be your particular brand of awesome!

As when we've released other products, however, the number of people who want/"need" will initially be far greater than the number of units we are able to manufacture, sell, or ship. I will shepherd the waitlist process to the extent possible. Some of us can even try to help the sad ones learn to wait for something that's worth waiting for.

But when one of us shows up here with the smell of a rat firmly entrenched up their own nostrils, it does no good to react with a gut-clenching sense of being accused. To turn a popular saying around, "It isn't me, it's you."

I won't delete or lock such threads. It's up to you, our community, to handle this. You can turn this sort of thing around with facts and assurances to create the kind of trust that you yourselves have gained in Fractal Audio.

So my friends, don't be guard dogs; be seeing-eye dogs.
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I spent over 40 years working in corporations, from Fortune 50 to small startups. I'm not impressed by most American corporations or by the attitudes and greed of their executive level, but FAS has impressed me SO much. That's why I test for them, because I believe in what they do and how they do it.
 
mThomasDutch said:
I'd gladly pay one of those $99 upgrade fees right now to have global blocks and maybe another premium feature or two (maybe independent tempo settings for songs) added to my FM9. As responsive as Fractal is, it would always be easier to justify responding to customer requests when they're standing there saying "Take my money!".
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That can quickly lead to a situation where the ones with the most money get the features they want and those without the money never see the features they want or need, even if they're actually better for the platform. There have been discussions on the forum along that line and it's been rejected.

Fractal put a lot of thought designing the current generation hardware and how the firmware fits it, and implement features when it makes sense to them, in a way that fits their goals and aligns with the requests from the users.

Some things can't be implemented because the hardware itself doesn't allow it. From what I remember, global blocks are costly, both memory-wise and CPU-wise because they duplicate the blocks, and because the hardware forces different approaches for the FM units, resulting in increased support and development time. The FX3 has abundant CPU and memory, whereas the FM units are more constrained. Fractal is upfront about the FX3 having additional features over the FM, so potential buyers can make an informed decision and buy the unit that fits their needs. The reason it has those additional features isn't to force sales that way, it was to satisfy the needs of their pro touring customers just as the FM units were targeted at users without those needs. Maybe Cliff will eventually figure out how to implement a more limited implementation of global blocks that sidesteps the cost issues, maybe he won't, but you can be assured he's heard the request.
 
Before I bought my first Fractal unit, I was skeptical and cynical as well. After 8 years dealing with FAS products, support and forum, I have become convinced that FAS breaks the mold of 'business as usual'. Everything I've read from Cliff and the admins have led me to the conclusion that they do not do what they do strictly for the money. Sure, making money is a driving force in any business, it's the only thing that keeps the doors open. But Cliff seems to continue moving forward mainly because he loves what he does.

No other company I've dealt with has their finger on the pulse of their customer base than FAS. They also will not compromise the quality of the tone or the overall system of a device. When Cliff says "There's a reason it costs less" when discussing devices other than their flagship does not refer to withholding features, it's a comment that refers to the limitations of the hardware. Everything I've seen has shown that Cliff ensures that as many features as possible will be included in each device. He also continues to work on adding features to existing devices rather than save them for future hardware.

While certain features, like dual amps in the FM3 could be possible, it would impact the tonal quality which, again, is a non-starter for Cliff. I've come to trust that each device has been optimized to it's fullest given the constraints of the hardware.

The cynicism that seems to creep into these threads is unwarranted and unsubstantiated. Call me a fanboy if you want, but I dare you to prove me wrong before doing so.
 
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Admin M@ said:
No such plan has been announced and at present it isn't something we're working on.
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What if you could change a block in your block's library using the editor and then issue a command from the editor which would update all the presets using that library block with the current settings?

I was told before this would be very difficult. But would it really?
 
Greg Ferguson said:
^THIS!!!^

NONE of us, nobody outside of FAS, is in a position to make any sort of valid statement about what is feasible or difficult to implement. To assume so is the height of hubris.
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Thanks Greg but doesn't the tag on @Admin M@ 's handle that says "Fractal Audio Systems" mean he is on the inside? Sorry but you were a little dismissive the last time I suggested this.

In the mean time I defended you against some irrational flaming on another topic (and again here). But on this subject exactly how is your post valid?

Hubris has many forms. I asked a question. Isn't hubris also to dismiss a valid question when admittedly you are not in the know?
 
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Greg Ferguson said:
Unless the company is very content with their corporate income and sales.

EVERYTHING I've heard FAS say, both in the forum and in outside interviews, leads me to think that's their attitude. The current generation of the hardware will eventually be replaced, but I haven't read anything saying that it's anytime soon, to the contrary, Cliff has said multiple times that there's a LOT of life left in the design and units.

American companies typically behave the way you suggest, and that leaves a bad taste in our mouths and causes distrust so encountering a company like Fractal results in suspicion, and it often takes years to remove those.

In 2020 @Admin M@ wrote an entry to one of the threads that everyone should read, but because of how forums work it's likely that few have seen it…



I spent over 40 years working in corporations, from Fortune 50 to small startups. I'm not impressed by most American corporations or by the attitudes and greed of their executive level, but FAS has impressed me SO much. That's why I test for them, because I believe in what they do and how they do it.
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Greg,

Thank you for re-posting that post from @Admin M@ . I agree with your sentiments completely. FAS is a great company and I'm a customer for life.

Best,
Scott
 
crickets GIF
 
From wikipedia:
In its modern usage, hubris denotes overconfident pride combined with arrogance. Hubris is often associated with a lack of humility. Sometimes a person's hubris is also associated with ignorance.

In my case there is no ignorance. I may not know the specifics of the editor's code but I have been a software dev for nearly 4 decades. There is another well respected member on these forums that agreed with me. If the editor can do both blocks library and batch setter functions then "it does feel like most of the bits are there".

He happens to be a software dev too just like @Greg Ferguson , myself and many others.

Hubris on my part? Poppycock.

As to the one leveling the accusation ... TBD.
 
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