Is it possible to mic FRFR cabs? The REAL test. (My Demo)

Your FRFR is for you, and maybe the other band members if they aren't using in-ears of wedges fed from the main mixer, not for the audience. That is what the PA (which is FRFR) is for. I've never been to a gig that didn't use a PA, whether the venue's or the band's. If you are just jamming in a garage or living room, then record that in the room, but you get whet you get.

I've heard some pretty good cell phone recordings of bands, if they stay in one spot. There are some really cool digital recorders out there with built in condensed mics that do a great job. Then you replace (or blend?) the original cell phone or GoPro audio with that better audio to your video with a video editor program.
 
dsouza said:
@Moke
Excellent but LIVE people don't just want audio they want video footage.. I know I do for YT channel testomonials of my performances in action.

Would you recommend specific types of video cameras or camcorders to record or they don't do justice to live frfr speaker performance? Remember we're working with real life budgets.

I was hoping for a simpler all in one solution to record video and audio of myself performing live in the venue that would make both video and an frfr speaker system footage sound great.

I know a lot of musicians don't even record their live performances both in audio and video , which is sad.
Click to expand...
you're an experienced recording artist of 12 years as stated in your other thread. how did you record things in the past for your videos? how is this situation different?

i think we don't have a complete picture of what you're trying to accomplish. you mention performing live. is this through your own sound system completely, with no other sound gear? are you singing or talking? is it just guitar?

we can't suggest a good recording method without knowing what is being recorded. let us know more details.
 
chris said:
you're an experienced recording artist of 12 years as stated in your other thread. how did you record things in the past for your videos? how is this situation different?

i think we don't have a complete picture of what you're trying to accomplish. you mention performing live. is this through your own sound system completely, with no other sound gear? are you singing or talking? is it just guitar?

we can't suggest a good recording method without knowing what is being recorded. let us know more details.
Click to expand...

@chris

For YT either camcorder with portable mic and then sync the video. Or camcorder for video with sm57 for audio then sync the video. Or Cell phone filmic pro record video then sync audio from sm57. I used a software product to mix audio and video syncing. But this was all done in my condo.

I am talking about performing live at gig venues. I am not attached to a producer at this time so there is no crew doing all this. I have been more an indepreneur mostly.

I'd do mostly solo guitar instrumentals and introduce songs with an audio mic.

The performance I'd do would be more like a continuous SHOW than an interactive stop and go performance you'd expect at a wedding for instance , the player interacting constantly with the guests.

I am unsure if I'd make more money running my own business and hiring help out or attaching myself to agencies and producers in my city who book gigs for me.

I am new at performing. Read only in front of family gatherings. So I am trying to get prepared. The AX8, and HR108's is my first step. I also have an AC10 tube with pedalboard.

Hope that helps a bit.
 
dsouza said:
For YT either camcorder with portable mic and then sync the video. Or camcorder for video with sm57 for audio then sync the video. Or Cell phone filmic pro record video then sync audio from sm57. I used a software product to mix audio and video syncing. But this was all done in my condo.

I am talking about performing live at gig venues.
Click to expand...
these methods sound like they'd work for live as well. you should be all set.
 
Don't use a 57 to capture a full band live performance. Those are specifically for close miking guitar cabs, vocals, etc...

To capture FRFR stuff you will need FRFR mics.

Your best bet is to record the direct sound straight out of the mixer that your AX8 and you vocal mic(s), backing tracks, etc. are running through. Then maybe blend in a little of the call phone/camcorder audio for some room sound. You will have to time align the two audio tracks to prevent any comb filtering/phase issues.
 
Last edited:
dsouza said:
Moke said it first right here. Thumbs up!
Click to expand...
if your goal is to buy what you need for the best result, then we can definitely help you with that.

this isn't how the thread first started.

if you want to use the gear you already have for "real life budgets" like you mentioned, then you are pretty much good to go.

do you want to buy additional gear to accomplish this? each reply seems to reveal more about the goal than we knew before.
 
Moke said:
This was recorded with our (now ex) bass player's (now ex) wife's cell phone at a bar a few years ago. A good live mix is needed first.
Click to expand...

In additional to the Edge mainly, David Gilmour is one of my favorite guitarists and I am actually learning some of his works. I picked up some lessons off LL. Your band rocks!
 
chris said:
if your goal is to buy what you need for the best result, then we can definitely help you with that.

this isn't how the thread first started.

if you want to use the gear you already have for "real life budgets" like you mentioned, then you are pretty much good to go.

do you want to buy additional gear to accomplish this? each reply seems to reveal more about the goal than we knew before.
Click to expand...

Right now I'm too busy LEARNING about the performance industry. I am happily developing my performance content until the stage comes when I'm ready to go full tilt. I can't help you further because I am half blinded by all the information myself. I am not new to recording, but the AX8 I have had for only 1 year. I have used mainly pedal board/real tube amps, and multi fx units before (Line 6 m13, Helix HX effects). So amp modelling took me by surprise this year , as did the concept of monitors, frfr units, and a zillion other terms, which must explain all the questions I ask. :)
 
Most cell phones apply a bunch of compression as an auto leveling function. A live band is much louder than a typical cell phone video situation. So there will typically be a lot of 'pumping' from the compressor during quieter and louder parts of the performance.

Here is an example of this from a short cell phone video from a House of Blues show a couple of years ago. The quiet parts of the song are sometimes louder than the louder parts. Maybe some better phones have the ability to turn off the auto-leveling and actually set the input sensitivity?


From the same night, but further back from the stage.
 
Last edited:
dsouza said:
I am not new to recording, but the AX8 I have had for only 1 year. I have used mainly pedal board/real tube amps, and multi fx units before (Line 6 m13, Helix HX effects). So amp modelling took me by surprise this year , as did the concept of monitors, frfr units, and a zillion other terms, which must explain all the questions I ask. :)
Click to expand...
there's not much difference recording a live performance. there's a signal, and you capture it somehow.

modeling also isn't that different. you can mic the speaker, or a new option is to get the direct signal and record that. really not that different.

i think you're ready with the gear you have. can it be improved? sure, anything can. but you have a setup that works now.

i too like to research as much as possible, but the thing that teaches me the fastest is doing the thing, with the expectation that i will be forced to learn some things. anyone can plan for a while, but only when actually doing it are some things revealed.
 
Last edited:
@Moke
@chris
@GlennO
@mr_fender
@ChristThePhone

You know how the general consensus is not to record off frfr speakers?

I concluded that with my tests?

Well I agree it's better to record direct than off frfr speakers, especially if you're using an sm57, sm58 into an audio box.

HOWEVER, and here is the HOWEVER, when I used my cell phone just yesterday to audio record off my frfr speakers using a streaming software cell phone app and OBS studio the recording is VERY , VERY close the original sound of the frfr cabs. I mean like amazing!

I wonder what the reason is a simple Iphone like mine can record better off frfr speakers than an sm57 through an audio box? Any takers?

I'm starting to think it's because cell phone mics capture the whole room better than an sm57 which is designed to be placed in front of a real amp's speaker cone in order to record properly.

Still this is a phenomenon I am eager to decipher.

P.S. The audio recording off cell is meant for live performance. For a professional performance , where you don't want to hear the sound of a player hitting the switches on the AX8 etc well you need to record direct. There's no question about it. But for live performance this sounds damn close!
 
Last edited:
dsouza said:
You know how the general consensus is not to record off frfr speakers?

I concluded that with my tests?

Well I agree it's better to record direct than off frfr speakers, especially if you're using an sm57, sm58 into an audio box.

HOWEVER, and here is the HOWEVER, when I used my cell phone just yesterday to audio record off my frfr speakers using a streaming software cell phone app and OBS studio the recording is VERY , VERY close the original sound of the frfr cabs. I mean like amazing!

I wonder what the reason is a simple Iphone like mine can record better off frfr speakers than an sm57 through an audio box? Any takers?
Click to expand...
the reason to not record full range speakers is that the direct signal is already the same thing. so you're doing extra work for no real good reason.

an iphone mic is full range as well compared to a 57, so it's a full range mic capturing a full range sound. a 57 will color the sound and is very directional.
 
chris said:
the reason to not record full range speakers is that the direct signal is already the same thing. so you're doing extra work for no real good reason.

an iphone mic is full range as well compared to a 57, so it's a full range mic capturing a full range sound. a 57 will color the sound and is very directional.
Click to expand...

So you're saying an iphone mic is a frfr mic? Is there such a thing? I would think it is in a way an frfr mic because it captures the full room, full range sound pretty damn close (Over 95% accuracy) -- at least through the streaming software I'm using. I don't know how good it would capture it if I used the iphone mic direct off my cell (without the streaming software) like I would when taking a normal video.
 
dsouza said:
So you're saying an iphone mic is a frfr mic? Is there such a thing? I would think it is in a way an frfr mic because it captures the full room, full range sound pretty damn close (Over 95% accuracy) -- at least through the streaming software I'm using. I don't know how good it would capture it if I used the iphone mic direct off my cell like I would when taking a normal video.
Click to expand...
full range. FRFR is specifically full-range, flat response.

many speakers are not FRFR but just full range, meaning capturing or producing 20 Hz - 20 kHz on average.
 
dsouza said:
So you're saying an iphone mic is a frfr mic? Is there such a thing? I would think it is in a way an frfr mic because it captures the full room, full range sound pretty damn close (Over 95% accuracy) -- at least through the streaming software I'm using. I don't know how good it would capture it if I used the iphone mic direct off my cell (without the streaming software) like I would when taking a normal video.
Click to expand...

An iphone mic is a bad quality FRFR mic. Surely more FRFR than a SM57, but not as flat and full range as a professional neutral/flat microphone.
 
Piing said:
An iphone mic is a bad quality FRFR mic. Surely more FRFR than a SM57, but not as flat and full range as a professional neutral/flat microphone.
Click to expand...

@chris , thank you buddy for the advice on getting into streaming. Already I'm discovering things I never knew.

@Piing
I don't know. I have recorded myself direct off my AX8 instead of using a recording off frfr speakers, but last night when I recorded through OBS studio off my frfr Redsound ELis 8 speakers using my Iphone 10 the sound was SUPERIOR to the direct recording.

The only reason I wouldn't give it a 10 is because the cell was capturing all kinds of sounds like my feet pressing the footswitches in between scene changes etc. Very unprofessional for a real studio recording but excellent enough for a live recording.

And inexpensive as hell. Like I said I don't know if the software in OBS studio was also helping the sound of the cell phone recording. I have a feeling it was because my cell phone audio usually sounds like crap o.w.

I used the PROFESSIONAL QUALITY AND STEREO SOUND CAPTURE of OBS Studio audio using a cell phone app capturing the sound via iphone mic.

Maybe it's the software? Like I said I never experienced this good a recording off cell phone frfr or not , using my traditional cell phone audio/video capture. So it must be OBS studio providing a helping hand, and it sure does a FANTASTIC job!
 
Last edited:
If the results aren't immediately serviceable then it's probably not worth making millions of micro-adjustments to get it to sound half decent. The first time I mic'd up my EVH 2x12 with an SM57 and recorded some KSE riffs it sounded just like the album.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom